The Look & Cook Air Fryer Bible, Our One-Minute Cooking Tip, An Interview With Carolina Doriti, A Great Pilsner, Summer Pudding & More!

Bruce: 00:00:01

Hey, I'm Bruce Weinstein and this is the Podcast

Bruce: 00:00:03

Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

Mark: 00:00:04

And I am Mark Scarborough.

Mark: 00:00:05

And together with Bruce, we have written over three dozen

Mark: 00:00:11

cookbooks, including, well, the cookbook we're about to talk about.

Mark: 00:00:15

So we, this show is going to be about our brand new cook.

Mark: 00:00:19

Book, sorry to be so self-congratulatory, but why not, right?

Mark: 00:00:23

We get to do this at least once.

Mark: 00:00:25

We don't hitch over there too much with this, but we wanna talk about

Mark: 00:00:28

what it took to write this book.

Mark: 00:00:30

We've got a one minute cooking tip.

Mark: 00:00:31

Bruce is interviewing Caroline Doherty, the author of Salt of the Earth's

Mark: 00:00:36

Secrets and Stories from a Greek kitchen.

Mark: 00:00:40

I have to tell you, this cookbook.

Mark: 00:00:41

Absolutely blew my mind.

Mark: 00:00:44

When I saw it.

Mark: 00:00:45

I wanted to make every single recipe in it.

Mark: 00:00:48

It is a gorgeous cookbook, salt of the earth.

Mark: 00:00:50

I can't wait to hear that interview and we're gonna tell you what's

Mark: 00:00:53

making us happy in food this week.

Mark: 00:00:55

So let's get started.

Bruce: 00:01:00

We have written, and in November we'll be publishing the look and cook.

Bruce: 00:01:06

Air Fryer, Bible and we called it Look and Cook because every step of every recipe is

Bruce: 00:01:12

photographed 700 plus photos in the book.

Bruce: 00:01:16

So you will know what it looks like when we say to bread the chicken breasts.

Bruce: 00:01:21

You will know what it looks like to skewer shrimp.

Bruce: 00:01:24

You will know what it looks like to flip.

Bruce: 00:01:26

A sandwich inside of an air fryer.

Mark: 00:01:28

And you know what we did on, we made a couple decisions on this.

Mark: 00:01:31

It's really funny.

Mark: 00:01:32

We want, I wanna talk about how this book got created.

Mark: 00:01:34

So we made a couple decisions.

Mark: 00:01:35

One was we had to limit, of course, because, you know, pub publishers

Mark: 00:01:40

can't publish volumes of recipes that every, uh, recipe is photographed

Mark: 00:01:44

because it's just too expensive to publish the book, to print the book.

Mark: 00:01:47

So we had a limit to 125 and we chose 125.

Mark: 00:01:51

I mean, that was actually a long negotiation.

Mark: 00:01:53

And Bruce and I.

Mark: 00:01:54

Always sit down and we work out the table of contents, or if you wanna be really in

Mark: 00:01:59

the publishing, no, you call it the t o c.

Mark: 00:02:01

We work out the t o C together and we figure out what recipes

Mark: 00:02:05

are gonna be in the book.

Mark: 00:02:06

That's basically the table of contents.

Mark: 00:02:08

But this time, and this is unusual for us, there were about 30 recipes that Bruce

Mark: 00:02:14

tested that didn't make it into the book.

Mark: 00:02:16

And I don't mean that they failed in the testing.

Mark: 00:02:18

I mean that they were tested and ready to go, but we had to

Mark: 00:02:22

kind of figure out how to shape.

Mark: 00:02:23

The book so that there were 125 recipes so that there were enough in each chapter.

Mark: 00:02:28

It was weird.

Mark: 00:02:28

We, we never really come up against this, in which we have a whole bandwidth of

Mark: 00:02:33

recipes left over at the end of testing.

Bruce: 00:02:36

Well, yeah.

Bruce: 00:02:36

If we're writing a book with 500 recipes, it's okay for me to have.

Bruce: 00:02:40

Six recipes for breaded chicken cutlets.

Bruce: 00:02:43

Right, right.

Bruce: 00:02:43

With different seasonings, right.

Bruce: 00:02:44

Different coatings, different liquids that hold the breadcrumbs on.

Bruce: 00:02:48

Right.

Bruce: 00:02:48

But when it's a look and cook and the technique is basically the

Bruce: 00:02:52

same, we don't need more than one.

Mark: 00:02:54

Well, for example, one example is that we, you had tested and

Mark: 00:02:58

wrote out a recipe for Char Sue the.

Mark: 00:03:01

Uh, Chinese, uh, roast pork in an air fryer and we eventually cut

Mark: 00:03:05

it because, and this was another thing that was interesting.

Mark: 00:03:08

We cut it because we couldn't make it make sense in six pictures.

Mark: 00:03:12

We had five to six pictures for each recipe and the only way we

Mark: 00:03:16

could make that recipe makes sense.

Mark: 00:03:18

It was more than six pictures.

Mark: 00:03:21

Mm.

Mark: 00:03:21

So we cut that recipe out of the book.

Mark: 00:03:23

It's really an intriguing set of problems.

Mark: 00:03:25

I know this is very writerly and self-involved, but this is the kind

Mark: 00:03:28

of thing that we actually had to think about to write this book.

Bruce: 00:03:31

Well, it's interesting when you think about how we're

Bruce: 00:03:32

gonna tell the story of a recipe.

Bruce: 00:03:34

Yeah.

Bruce: 00:03:34

They all have to, in a book like this, Be the same length.

Bruce: 00:03:39

Yeah.

Bruce: 00:03:39

So the stories have to be the same length, whether we're showing you

Bruce: 00:03:41

how to do, you know, a mac and cheese with bacon and fig jam.

Bruce: 00:03:46

Yeah.

Bruce: 00:03:46

Or whether we're showing you how to do a stuffed chicken breast,

Bruce: 00:03:48

because we have to be consistent with how many photos are on a page

Mark: 00:03:51

and because.

Mark: 00:03:52

Each recipe was photographed.

Mark: 00:03:53

What we did is we decided that you didn't need to turn a page to complete a recipe,

Mark: 00:03:58

which is really important because the recipe falls on the left hand side and

Mark: 00:04:02

all the pictures on the right hand side, which means that that recipe couldn't

Mark: 00:04:05

go beyond the left hand side of a page.

Mark: 00:04:08

Right?

Mark: 00:04:09

And then the re the photos.

Mark: 00:04:11

Across that, because again, we didn't want you to have to turn the page, finish

Mark: 00:04:14

the recipe, and then turn back to look at some photos, which made no sense.

Mark: 00:04:17

Yeah.

Mark: 00:04:18

So we were trying desperately to figure out how to do this.

Mark: 00:04:21

And the other thing that we did, which is, I'm sorry, again, self-involved.

Mark: 00:04:25

Uh, but how the book got created is we had to figure out how can we tell this

Mark: 00:04:29

story of this recipe without words?

Mark: 00:04:31

So we, we made this deal.

Mark: 00:04:34

That the photos had to stand on their own.

Mark: 00:04:36

Now you wouldn't know how much of a, of an ingredient to use, how many breadcrumbs

Mark: 00:04:42

to use, and whether it's half a cup or a cup without reading the recipe.

Mark: 00:04:45

But still, you have to see it sitting there in the five or six pictures,

Mark: 00:04:49

and they themselves have to make a story right on that side of the page.

Bruce: 00:04:53

There are other books out there that show you.

Bruce: 00:04:56

Step-by-step pictures and they're really good.

Bruce: 00:04:58

Like the noon paleo people do it all the time.

Bruce: 00:05:01

They do it excellently.

Bruce: 00:05:02

They do a beautiful job of it.

Bruce: 00:05:03

What they do though is show you so many pictures.

Bruce: 00:05:07

Yeah.

Bruce: 00:05:07

That it's almost like if you, if you scan the page fast, I feel

Bruce: 00:05:10

like you're watching a movie.

Bruce: 00:05:11

Yes.

Mark: 00:05:12

And because it's like so, so, so many pictures.

Mark: 00:05:13

That's the other thing we decided is that we looked a lot at the nom,

Mark: 00:05:17

nom paleo books, which are beautiful and they do, they're gorgeous.

Mark: 00:05:19

A beautiful job of them.

Mark: 00:05:21

But, um, we looked at those books and the.

Mark: 00:05:23

The number of recipes that had, let's say 15 photos to them.

Mark: 00:05:27

Right.

Mark: 00:05:28

We found those actually overwhelming.

Mark: 00:05:29

I said to Bruce, I, my, I can't focus on the page.

Mark: 00:05:32

I don't know where to look on this page.

Mark: 00:05:34

Mm-hmm.

Mark: 00:05:34

For pictures.

Mark: 00:05:35

So I wanna be able to put all my pictures on the right hand side and

Mark: 00:05:38

all my texts on the left hand side.

Bruce: 00:05:40

And what we gained by that was also that we could blow the pictures up.

Bruce: 00:05:44

Yeah.

Bruce: 00:05:44

So they're not small, they're not postage stamp size.

Bruce: 00:05:47

Right.

Bruce: 00:05:47

So that they're really big.

Bruce: 00:05:48

So you can really see what's going on.

Bruce: 00:05:50

And we had a.

Bruce: 00:05:51

Fabulous photographer Eric Medsker, who shoots the last 13 of our books Yep.

Bruce: 00:05:56

Came to the house and he shot them and they are just gorgeous.

Mark: 00:05:59

So all the shots in the book, all 705 of them are in our kitchen.

Mark: 00:06:03

Those are Bruce's hands as Bruce's waist.

Mark: 00:06:05

I don't think your face is in any of the pictures, but it's your, your mid drift.

Mark: 00:06:12

Oh.

Mark: 00:06:12

I love the idea that you're wearing a halter top on the camera.

Mark: 00:06:15

Um,

Bruce: 00:06:16

no, but I did have a cut on a finger and I kept every putting.

Bruce: 00:06:18

Concealer, you did a foundation on my cut.

Bruce: 00:06:21

You did.

Bruce: 00:06:21

Just constantly all week.

Mark: 00:06:22

And so we had three different weeklong photo shoots to create this

Mark: 00:06:27

many pictures and it was really intense.

Mark: 00:06:29

Uh, we get along really well with this photographer, but I have to say that

Mark: 00:06:32

all three of us had to admit at the end of the last shoot that our tempers had

Mark: 00:06:37

frayed by the end of the last shoot that we were all kind of a little bity because.

Mark: 00:06:42

We were working so intensely, so quickly, and for so many days together.

Mark: 00:06:47

I mean, you know, you, you get to be really good friends and then all of a

Mark: 00:06:51

sudden you start saying things that you really wouldn't say to a really good

Mark: 00:06:54

friend because suddenly it's like your three of us are married or something.

Mark: 00:06:58

You're seeing these awful things and you're having to back up and say,

Mark: 00:07:01

no, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to.

Mark: 00:07:02

Bite at you because you didn't take the shot fast enough.

Mark: 00:07:05

You gotta take that one faster because we're trying to get this in the shot.

Mark: 00:07:08

So it was all a huge negotiation and laying it out was another problem

Mark: 00:07:13

because then when the book got to copy edit, we have a really great copy

Mark: 00:07:18

edit editor or somebody who I just absolutely insist copy edits our books.

Mark: 00:07:24

I'm so pleased that I get to insist this.

Mark: 00:07:27

And of course she then looked.

Mark: 00:07:29

At the photographs and at the text and had to make sure that they jived.

Mark: 00:07:34

And several times she would say, you know, I, I don't know.

Mark: 00:07:37

I'd have written half inch slices of celery.

Mark: 00:07:41

And she's like, picture does not show half inch slices of celery picture.

Mark: 00:07:45

I blame you.

Mark: 00:07:45

Picture shows one inch slices of celery,

Mark: 00:07:48

blame the

Bruce: 00:07:48

food stylist.

Bruce: 00:07:49

That's fine.

Mark: 00:07:50

Well, it was a thing.

Mark: 00:07:51

And so then I had to then, Rejigger that recipe.

Mark: 00:07:55

I had to go back up to Bruce and say, is it okay that we are making

Mark: 00:07:58

these sell re slices bigger or smaller than we originally said in

Mark: 00:08:02

the original testing and yada yada.

Mark: 00:08:04

I mean, all of that was all the negotiation that went into this book.

Mark: 00:08:07

It was quite laborious.

Mark: 00:08:09

It was to create it.

Bruce: 00:08:10

It was, and I said, this book goes on sale in November, so

Bruce: 00:08:13

why are we talking about it now?

Bruce: 00:08:14

Because we have just finished all the editorial process on

Bruce: 00:08:18

it, so it it's all to bed it.

Bruce: 00:08:20

We are so happy about that.

Bruce: 00:08:21

And because it is available for pre-order and pre-orders are really important.

Bruce: 00:08:26

You've probably seen a lot of authors on social media, both for novels,

Bruce: 00:08:30

for memoirs, and for cookbooks.

Bruce: 00:08:31

Talking about, Hey, pre-order.

Bruce: 00:08:33

Pre-order, it's really important.

Bruce: 00:08:35

It tells the publisher how many to print up front so they

Bruce: 00:08:38

don't run out, and it really.

Bruce: 00:08:40

Just helps everybody know what's going on.

Bruce: 00:08:42

So if you're considering buying a book, ours or anyone else's that's

Bruce: 00:08:46

coming out, consider pre-ordering because it's really helpful.

Bruce: 00:08:49

So the look and cook Air Fryer Bible will be out in November,

Mark: 00:08:52

and if you look down at the show notes to this podcast, there is a link.

Mark: 00:08:56

To buy it in the us.

Mark: 00:08:58

Sorry, I can't put an international link there.

Mark: 00:09:00

I can't.

Mark: 00:09:01

I'd make a link suitable for all countries, but it is suitable for the

Mark: 00:09:05

US And if you're in another country and listening to this podcast and

Mark: 00:09:09

you would like a copy of the book, you can click through and it'll

Mark: 00:09:11

then divert you to your country's.

Mark: 00:09:14

Amazon site, sorry.

Mark: 00:09:16

It's all through the great Satan, Amazon, and it will, it will divert

Mark: 00:09:19

you there, but you can find that link in the show notes on whatever platform

Mark: 00:09:23

you're listening to this podcast on.

Mark: 00:09:25

Well, that sounded bad.

Mark: 00:09:26

Didn't On, on, on.

Mark: 00:09:27

Well, anyway.

Mark: 00:09:28

Okay.

Mark: 00:09:28

And you're the writer.

Mark: 00:09:29

And I'm the writer.

Mark: 00:09:30

Before we get to the next segment of our show, let me say that it would be

Mark: 00:09:33

great if you could subscribe to this podcast, if you can rate it, if you

Mark: 00:09:36

can write a review, even just nice.

Mark: 00:09:38

Podcast down there.

Mark: 00:09:40

It really does wonders for us.

Mark: 00:09:41

Thank you for doing that.

Mark: 00:09:42

It helps in the analytics, it helps in the algorithms.

Mark: 00:09:46

We are unsupported and choose to be that way, so our only support is through you.

Mark: 00:09:51

So thank you very much for supporting the podcast and subscribing to

Mark: 00:09:55

it so you don't miss an episode.

Mark: 00:09:57

Up next as is traditional, our one minute cooking tip.

Bruce: 00:10:03

When you are adding ground dried spices to a cake batter or a

Bruce: 00:10:09

quickb bread batter, like you're adding cinnamon or cloves, or ground ginger

Bruce: 00:10:14

to a banana bread or to a cake, don't.

Bruce: 00:10:17

Add them with the dry ingredients.

Bruce: 00:10:20

Oh, this is so fascinating.

Bruce: 00:10:21

Put them in the mixer.

Bruce: 00:10:22

When you're creaming your butter or shortening and sugar,

Mark: 00:10:25

you just went against every recipe ever written.

Mark: 00:10:28

I don't care.

Mark: 00:10:28

Okay.

Mark: 00:10:28

say why?

Bruce: 00:10:29

Because one, they'll get distributed evenly, but that's

Bruce: 00:10:33

not the most important thing.

Bruce: 00:10:34

The most important thing is that the fat, the butter, or

Bruce: 00:10:37

the shortening of the oil will.

Bruce: 00:10:39

Bring out the flavor of that ground spice and it, most of

Bruce: 00:10:44

these spices are fat soluble.

Bruce: 00:10:46

Most of them are only fat, so and so the fat brings them out, draws out

Bruce: 00:10:51

the flavor, and makes it more intense.

Bruce: 00:10:53

When we say

Mark: 00:10:53

the spices are, fat soluble, what we mean is the flavin nets in the

Mark: 00:10:57

spices, not the spices themselves and the flavonoids are actually soluble in fat

Bruce: 00:11:03

because they're flavor oils.

Bruce: 00:11:04

Even in that cinnamon, there's a.

Bruce: 00:11:06

Flavor oil.

Bruce: 00:11:07

Even in that ground.

Bruce: 00:11:08

Ginger, there's a flavor oil and that blends with the fad, blends

Bruce: 00:11:12

with the shortening, it blends with your oil and you'll have a much more

Bruce: 00:11:15

intensely flavored cake or quick bread.

Mark: 00:11:22

Before we get to the interview on this podcast, we need to tell

Mark: 00:11:24

you that we do have a newsletter.

Mark: 00:11:26

It is also called Cookie Boots and Mark, you can find it.

Mark: 00:11:29

On our website cooking with Bru and Mark, weren't we smart?

Mark: 00:11:32

We did all that together.

Mark: 00:11:33

cooking@bruandmark.com.

Mark: 00:11:34

You can find it on the website drop down there.

Mark: 00:11:36

There's a signup, uh, uh, form on the splash page.

Mark: 00:11:41

If you just scroll down, I just will tell you upfront, I cannot

Mark: 00:11:45

see that you have subscribed and I cannot capture your email.

Mark: 00:11:48

I set it up as a locked private system so your email can never

Mark: 00:11:52

be distributed and you can unsubscribe from our newsletter at.

Mark: 00:11:55

At any point it comes out, mm, I don't know, two times a month maybe.

Mark: 00:11:59

Along in there when I get the gumption, usually on Mondays it comes out, I wanna

Mark: 00:12:04

overwhelm people with an email a week.

Mark: 00:12:06

I find that just really irritating from the newsletters I sign up for.

Mark: 00:12:10

So, Hmm.

Mark: 00:12:11

Couple times a month I send out a newsletter.

Mark: 00:12:13

Sometimes it's about food and cooking.

Mark: 00:12:14

Sometimes it's about our life here in rural New England.

Mark: 00:12:17

It's about our dogs, our colleagues.

Mark: 00:12:19

It's about gardening.

Mark: 00:12:20

Oh my gosh.

Mark: 00:12:21

It's about all kinds of things.

Mark: 00:12:23

It's about Bruce's knitting books.

Mark: 00:12:24

Yes.

Mark: 00:12:24

Bruce's published knitting books and teaches knitting classes

Mark: 00:12:27

where to find his patterns.

Mark: 00:12:29

So all of that comes out in the newsletter.

Mark: 00:12:31

Sign up there on our website, Bruce and mark.com.

Mark: 00:12:34

Okay.

Mark: 00:12:35

I'm next Bruce's interview with Caroline Doriti.

Mark: 00:12:37

She's the author of Salt of the Earth Secrets and Stories from a Greek kitchen.

Bruce: 00:12:43

Today we are talking with Carolina Doriti.

Bruce: 00:12:45

She is a chef and food writer specializing in Foods of Greece.

Bruce: 00:12:49

She's the culinary producer of the TV series, my Greek table, and

Bruce: 00:12:54

she's the author of the amazing new book, salt of the Earth Secrets

Bruce: 00:12:58

and Stories from a Greek Kitchen.

Bruce: 00:13:00

Welcome, Carolina.

Carolina: 00:13:01

Hello.

Carolina: 00:13:02

Thank you

Bruce: 00:13:02

for having me.

Bruce: 00:13:03

Oh, my pleasure.

Bruce: 00:13:04

So you grew up in Greece.

Bruce: 00:13:06

And you've been cooking for most of your life.

Bruce: 00:13:08

So can you describe Greek cuisine for someone totally unfamiliar

Bruce: 00:13:13

with the country and its food.

Carolina: 00:13:15

I mean, it, it really relies on the, on the, on the

Carolina: 00:13:17

fresh produce and what's in season.

Carolina: 00:13:19

And you know, Greek, Greece is blessed with amazing vegetable and fruit mm-hmm.

Carolina: 00:13:26

And other produce.

Carolina: 00:13:27

So the food is really, really fresh and very herbal.

Carolina: 00:13:30

And lemony and olive oil is a very, very, very big, uh, you know, trade of it.

Bruce: 00:13:37

Your book is divided up into food categories that

Bruce: 00:13:41

truly represent Greek flavors.

Bruce: 00:13:43

So let's start as you do in the book, let's start with olive

Bruce: 00:13:46

oil, and how important is it to the Greek culture and cuisine?

Carolina: 00:13:50

Very.

Carolina: 00:13:51

The cuisine would not exist without it, so it, it's needed in most of the recipes.

Carolina: 00:13:57

Um, I mean, it's a Mediterranean, uh, cuisine, so, you know, olive

Carolina: 00:14:03

oil is a fundamental ingredient.

Carolina: 00:14:05

And, um, it's not only about olive oil, you know, it's the olive as a symbol,

Carolina: 00:14:13

which is embedded in the culture in many, many ways, which I explain in the

Carolina: 00:14:17

book from the ancient times, you know?

Carolina: 00:14:20

Adopted into the Christian religion later.

Carolina: 00:14:23

So we see throughout history that, um, there are some major ingredients.

Carolina: 00:14:27

Olive oil.

Carolina: 00:14:28

The olive tree is one of them.

Carolina: 00:14:30

Or, or the vine or the, the, the chapters that I have separated, you

Carolina: 00:14:34

know, I have included in the book.

Carolina: 00:14:37

Mm-hmm.

Carolina: 00:14:37

Which really define, uh, the cuisine in so many ways.

Carolina: 00:14:41

And there are so many different ways to use them.

Bruce: 00:14:43

Is there something about.

Bruce: 00:14:45

The olives and the olive oil from Greece, that's different from other countries.

Carolina: 00:14:50

Uh, of course I'm Greek and I think Greek olive oil is amazing.

Bruce: 00:14:53

Why is Greek olive oil amazing?

Carolina: 00:14:55

It's first of all, you know, I mean most of the production

Carolina: 00:14:58

of the olive oil of the country.

Carolina: 00:15:01

If I'm not mistaken, around 80% of the production is classified as extra

Carolina: 00:15:05

virgin, so in fact, it's difficult to find bad quality olive oil.

Carolina: 00:15:09

I regard olive oil like wine.

Carolina: 00:15:12

You know, there are different varieties of olives that produce d.

Carolina: 00:15:17

Qualities of olive oil with different flavors and different aromas.

Carolina: 00:15:21

You know, the only, the only fundamental difference is that you cannot age it.

Carolina: 00:15:26

Mm-hmm.

Carolina: 00:15:26

You cannot age olive oil.

Carolina: 00:15:27

You have to consume it fresh so that you get all the nutrients.

Bruce: 00:15:31

Early in the book, you offer up a very simple but sublime recipe for.

Bruce: 00:15:36

Olives and onions and it's photographed and shown with some fried potatoes

Bruce: 00:15:41

and it just looks like heaven.

Bruce: 00:15:42

Tell me about this dish.

Carolina: 00:15:43

I'm so glad you like it.

Carolina: 00:15:45

You know, when I was, uh, deciding on which recipes I'm gonna choose for each

Carolina: 00:15:48

chapter, it was very diff difficult because, you know, I had a limited number

Carolina: 00:15:53

of recipes I could, I could include, and this was one of my favorites.

Carolina: 00:15:57

I thought, oh my God, they're gonna think I'm crazy, you know, using olive leaves.

Carolina: 00:16:02

In the place of meat in a way, because this was its purpose.

Carolina: 00:16:06

This is a poor months dish, which was prepared during times of war,

Carolina: 00:16:10

uh, when other ingredients were not easily accessible or available at all.

Carolina: 00:16:17

So, you know, it's based on two products that Greeks have always

Carolina: 00:16:21

had access to olives and onions.

Carolina: 00:16:24

You make it, I mean, first you cook the onions to soften them.

Carolina: 00:16:28

It's like a quick stew.

Carolina: 00:16:31

In a way, you just add the olives towards the end because you don't want

Carolina: 00:16:34

to overcook them because they will melt and you need to rinse the olives

Carolina: 00:16:38

very well of course before you start using them in, in such way so that

Carolina: 00:16:43

salt is gone is not so intense for me.

Carolina: 00:16:46

It reminds me of a very simple beef stew.

Carolina: 00:16:50

Mm-hmm.

Carolina: 00:16:50

With tomatoes.

Carolina: 00:16:51

So instead of the beef, you've got the o uh, olives, you know, as a main star.

Bruce: 00:16:58

And you have a chapter in your book about grains.

Bruce: 00:17:01

And I think many people might find it surprising that whole grains play such

Bruce: 00:17:06

an important role in Greek cuisine.

Bruce: 00:17:09

So what grains are the most common?

Bruce: 00:17:11

And if you had to pick.

Bruce: 00:17:13

One grain dish that represents the flavors of Greece, what would

Bruce: 00:17:16

that

Bruce: 00:17:16

be?

Bruce: 00:17:17

? Carolina: In my book, I'm presenting the

Bruce: 00:17:21

I explain how things maybe have changed.

Bruce: 00:17:23

So whole grains were historically used a lot.

Bruce: 00:17:27

Primarily barley in the ancient times.

Bruce: 00:17:31

Uh, of course this was, uh, mostly, you know, I mean, nowadays you see

Bruce: 00:17:35

wheat as the main ingredient and of course wheat is as well, very symbolic.

Bruce: 00:17:40

And it has been symbolic since the ancient times as well.

Bruce: 00:17:43

But, you know, I mean, whole grains were used more in the past.

Bruce: 00:17:47

As, as far as the whole wheat berries are, are concerned or you know, whole

Bruce: 00:17:52

barley berries, but there are certain dishes like for instance, Oliva,

Bruce: 00:17:58

which is a recipe in my cookbook, which is made with wheat berries.

Bruce: 00:18:01

Mm-hmm.

Bruce: 00:18:02

It's an ancient recipe as I described.

Bruce: 00:18:05

Connected to specific celebration of the ancient, uh, of ancient Athens.

Bruce: 00:18:10

And, and, uh, this was adopted later by the church and it's

Bruce: 00:18:14

still served, uh, at funerals.

Bruce: 00:18:16

In fact, it's wheat berries mixed with, uh, chopped nuts,

Bruce: 00:18:21

seeds and, uh, pomegranate seeds.

Bruce: 00:18:24

Uh, some chopped parts, parsley.

Bruce: 00:18:26

This was called.

Bruce: 00:18:28

Panspermia pan means everything in Greek and sperma sperm, you know, seeds.

Bruce: 00:18:35

Mm-hmm.

Bruce: 00:18:35

So it's a very, very symbolic thing, and everything means something in there.

Bruce: 00:18:40

So, I mean, apart from its symbolic, symbolic meaning, which I love, this is

Bruce: 00:18:45

fantastic for breakfast with yogurts.

Bruce: 00:18:49

Yum.

Bruce: 00:18:50

It's lightly sweet, but not very sweet as far as the, as the dish that represents

Bruce: 00:18:55

Greece, I think because you know, at some, at some point in history, Rice entered and

Bruce: 00:19:01

it became a big part of the, of the, of the cuisine, especially after the 1950s.

Bruce: 00:19:06

So a lot of the wheat recipes or cracked wheat recipes

Bruce: 00:19:10

were replaced, uh, with rice.

Bruce: 00:19:12

So I, I think at this, that fully represents the flavors of

Bruce: 00:19:15

summer and Greece is a sta rice stuffed, uh, baked vegetables.

Bruce: 00:19:20

I always make a big tray and I mix tomatoes and peppers and eggplants

Bruce: 00:19:25

and zucchinis and zucchini flowers and grape leaves, and I stuff everything.

Bruce: 00:19:29

And I add potatoes and I bake.

Bruce: 00:19:31

In the US we use honey as a sweetener or mild

Bruce: 00:19:35

flavoring, but in grease.

Bruce: 00:19:37

Honey is often a main ingredient.

Bruce: 00:19:39

I see that in the recipes in your book.

Bruce: 00:19:41

So tell me about your favorite honey dishes, both sweet and savory.

Carolina: 00:19:46

Honey, as olive oil and the wine comes from many

Carolina: 00:19:48

different, uh, plants or trees.

Carolina: 00:19:51

And it can be extremely different.

Carolina: 00:19:53

Like it can be creamy, it can be runny, it can be bitter, it can be sweet.

Carolina: 00:19:58

So it depends what honey I use for what.

Carolina: 00:20:02

So one of my favorite things is a very classic, uh, thing.

Carolina: 00:20:05

It's like yogurt with thyme, honey, thyme.

Carolina: 00:20:09

Because it's important because Greek time honey is very aromatic.

Carolina: 00:20:14

Mm-hmm.

Carolina: 00:20:14

And it's, uh, it's got the right consistency.

Carolina: 00:20:17

To be served on top of yogurts.

Carolina: 00:20:20

And I also love pesi recipes like the wild boar with Queens

Carolina: 00:20:24

and Honey, which I love cooking.

Carolina: 00:20:26

It's on Christmas.

Carolina: 00:20:27

And um, I also love desserts such as, um, lipless.

Carolina: 00:20:33

These are egg-based pancakes that are rolled as they are fried.

Carolina: 00:20:38

And they're crispy, and then you dip them in honey and you

Carolina: 00:20:41

sprinkle them with walnut.

Bruce: 00:20:43

There is a large chapter in your book dedicated to grapes.

Bruce: 00:20:48

Mm-hmm.

Bruce: 00:20:48

Um, you use the entire plant, the vine.

Bruce: 00:20:51

How is the entire plant used?

Carolina: 00:20:53

This is a very important part of what I'm trying to show in this book.

Carolina: 00:20:59

You know, that old cuisines are very wise.

Carolina: 00:21:03

Because they are traditionally sustainable and traditionally resourceful.

Carolina: 00:21:10

So, you know, now it's a very, you know, it's a very trendy

Carolina: 00:21:13

thing at the moment in cooking.

Carolina: 00:21:15

Mm-hmm.

Carolina: 00:21:16

Uh, but I would li you know, I like to show that this, you know, it used

Carolina: 00:21:19

to be like that and we kind of ruined it and now we are like going back to

Carolina: 00:21:23

it because you, we've wasted too much.

Carolina: 00:21:26

So the vine is an amazing example for that because you

Carolina: 00:21:30

literally do not waste a thing.

Carolina: 00:21:33

So you use, of course, the grapes.

Carolina: 00:21:36

Not only in, uh, food, uh, or by drying them to make raisins, but also,

Carolina: 00:21:42

you know, in wine and other spirits, vinegar, balsamic vinegar, grape

Carolina: 00:21:48

molasses, which comes from grape mast.

Carolina: 00:21:50

So I explain all of these parts of, of, you know, all these byproducts.

Carolina: 00:21:57

And, uh, and then we've got the leaves, the actual plant.

Carolina: 00:22:00

We use the leaves, we use the, the tips which are pickled, and then we also

Carolina: 00:22:04

cook with the tips when they're fresh.

Carolina: 00:22:06

They just have a very short season.

Carolina: 00:22:08

Mm-hmm.

Carolina: 00:22:10

Um, we use the, the twigs to roast meat on them.

Carolina: 00:22:14

So a lot of the Easter recipes, when the twigs are young, because you need

Carolina: 00:22:18

to use them when they, they are young.

Carolina: 00:22:21

You know, are used in a way as a grill so that the meat is placed on top of them.

Carolina: 00:22:25

And then this is not only working as a grill so that the meat cooks well, but it

Carolina: 00:22:30

also brings a, a special kind of aroma.

Carolina: 00:22:33

If

Bruce: 00:22:34

somebody picks up your book and they want to make a dinner.

Bruce: 00:22:38

And they've never made Greek food before.

Bruce: 00:22:41

What are two or three dishes they should make, which would really represent the

Bruce: 00:22:46

most authentic foods of Greece, which they could present to their friends and family?

Carolina: 00:22:51

My number one advice is, To follow the season, make sure that

Carolina: 00:22:55

whatever you use comes, you know, like is in season and it's, you know,

Carolina: 00:23:00

just go get the best ingredients you can get because the flavor, if,

Carolina: 00:23:03

if you're using vegetables, they're very important in, in every recipe.

Carolina: 00:23:07

They are the star of the recipe.

Carolina: 00:23:09

Mm-hmm.

Carolina: 00:23:09

Use a good olive oil, use a good wine to cook.

Carolina: 00:23:13

So this is my number one, um, advice.

Carolina: 00:23:17

And then my second advice is to whoever has not, Tried the classic Greek agro

Carolina: 00:23:25

lemon sauce, which is egg and lemon sauce.

Carolina: 00:23:30

Please choose one of the recipes cause it's used in many ways.

Carolina: 00:23:34

It can be used in a soup, it can be used as a sauce over stew.

Carolina: 00:23:37

It can be used in several different ways, but every way

Carolina: 00:23:41

is very unique in my opinion.

Carolina: 00:23:44

So unless someone is vegan and cannot try it, I, I would highly recommend.

Carolina: 00:23:49

And then for the people that are vegan, dry the dishes with, uh, with the giant

Carolina: 00:23:54

beans or with the chickpeas, which are very, very simple dishes and very tasty.

Bruce: 00:24:01

Carolina Doriti your book is Beautiful, salt of the Earth Secrets

Bruce: 00:24:05

and Stories from a Greek kitchen.

Bruce: 00:24:07

Great.

Bruce: 00:24:08

Good luck with the book, and thank you for spending some time talking

Bruce: 00:24:10

about Greek food with me this morning.

Carolina: 00:24:13

Thank you very much.

Mark: 00:24:15

As I said at the beginning of this podcast, that book just kind

Mark: 00:24:17

of blew me away when it came in.

Bruce: 00:24:18

It's beautiful.

Bruce: 00:24:19

It's such a gorgeous book.

Bruce: 00:24:20

I can't wait to start cooking my way through it.

Bruce: 00:24:22

Oh, and I love talking to her.

Bruce: 00:24:23

She, she spoke to me from her home in Athens, and I just

Bruce: 00:24:26

love that we could do that.

Mark: 00:24:27

Yeah, it's, it's such a great thing in the modern world.

Mark: 00:24:30

Bruce, by the way, if you don't know, and I, yeah, Bruce does all of

Mark: 00:24:33

these podcast interviews via Zoom, so he's actually looking at the

Mark: 00:24:37

author and they're looking at him.

Mark: 00:24:38

We don't publish those because that involves, Further releases of image

Mark: 00:24:43

and all this kinda stuff, and we're not interested in doing all of

Mark: 00:24:46

that, so we don't actually capture and publish the video interviews.

Mark: 00:24:50

And they are also, Bruce is also an editor and he edits the podcast quite a bit.

Mark: 00:24:57

The interviews get cut down quite a bit.

Mark: 00:24:59

So instead of a 40 minute interview, end up with a 17

Mark: 00:25:02

minute interview on the podcast.

Mark: 00:25:03

So again, Bruce says it all by Zoom, which is all kind of cool.

Mark: 00:25:06

Before we get to the last segment of this podcast, let's just say, Thanks

Mark: 00:25:11

for being with us on this journey.

Mark: 00:25:13

And now what's making us happy in food This week?

Mark: 00:25:19

What's making me happy in food this week is summer pudding.

Mark: 00:25:21

Huh.

Mark: 00:25:21

Bruce made a summer pudding to take to a friend's house for

Mark: 00:25:25

a dessert a couple weeks ago.

Mark: 00:25:27

And if you don't know about summer pudding, you need to

Mark: 00:25:29

learn about summer pudding.

Mark: 00:25:30

There's a great recipe in our book, the Ultimate Cookbook.

Mark: 00:25:33

But still, nonetheless, you can find all kinds of recipes

Mark: 00:25:36

online for summer pudding.

Mark: 00:25:37

It's basically, if you like bread and jam, you'll love a summer pudding.

Mark: 00:25:41

Well explain it.

Mark: 00:25:41

Explain.

Mark: 00:25:41

Well, you take a bunch of berries and you boil them down with sugar until

Mark: 00:25:45

you get a sort of jam like consistency.

Mark: 00:25:47

It doesn't have to be crazy.

Mark: 00:25:49

Sort of jam like consistency.

Mark: 00:25:50

And then you layer that in a bowl with crustless white bread, layers

Mark: 00:25:57

of bread and jam and bread and jam.

Mark: 00:25:59

Then you cover it, you weight it down, put a.

Mark: 00:26:02

Can on top plate and a can on top of it or something like that, put it in the fridge.

Mark: 00:26:06

The pectin and the berries helps it set up.

Mark: 00:26:09

The next day you pull it outta that.

Mark: 00:26:11

You turn the bowl upside down and unmold it, pull it out of the bowl, upside

Mark: 00:26:16

down onto a platter, and there it is.

Mark: 00:26:18

It's like a.

Mark: 00:26:18

Big round cake, full of bread and jam.

Mark: 00:26:23

You eat it with enough whipped cream and I can guarantee you get a stomach ache.

Mark: 00:26:26

But it is delicious.

Mark: 00:26:28

Just absolutely crazy.

Mark: 00:26:30

And we always have at least one summer pudding.

Mark: 00:26:33

A summer.

Mark: 00:26:33

We do.

Mark: 00:26:34

And our friend who Bruce took it to is uh, English.

Mark: 00:26:38

And I have to tell you that when she took the first bite, her

Mark: 00:26:41

eyes rolled back in her head.

Mark: 00:26:42

She.

Mark: 00:26:43

She was like, oh my gosh, what my mom used to make.

Bruce: 00:26:46

So tasted like home.

Mark: 00:26:48

Yeah.

Mark: 00:26:48

There you go.

Mark: 00:26:49

Okay, so what's making you have food this week?

Bruce: 00:26:51

A cold pizza Pilsner from Black Hog Brewing Company.

Bruce: 00:26:56

It's a Connecticut brewer, and they make this pilsner that is so crisp

Bruce: 00:27:00

and delicious and they say it goes great with leftover cold pizza.

Bruce: 00:27:04

Now the only problem is I like leftover cold pizza for breakfast, and I'm.

Bruce: 00:27:09

Still not at the point where I doing it.

Bruce: 00:27:10

Don't drink a beer for breakfast, Pilsner or breakfast.

Bruce: 00:27:12

But don't be that old.

Bruce: 00:27:13

That you drink a beer for breakfast and it's a Czech style Pilsner.

Bruce: 00:27:16

It's very bright.

Bruce: 00:27:17

It's light, it's crisp, it's dry.

Bruce: 00:27:20

It is one of my favorite new summer beers.

Bruce: 00:27:23

Mm-hmm.

Bruce: 00:27:23

Cold pizza, pilsner.

Mark: 00:27:24

Well, and you know, let's take this moment to say that there

Mark: 00:27:27

have been a million micro breweries spring up in the last 10 years.

Mark: 00:27:32

So many.

Mark: 00:27:33

That in case you don't know, most banks will no longer write

Mark: 00:27:36

business loans for micro breweries because the market is so flooded.

Mark: 00:27:41

So now is your chance to support your local microbrewery or cidery.

Mark: 00:27:47

Make it a point if you are in these things, To go visit them, pick up a

Mark: 00:27:52

six pack or drop in and have a beer at the bar, or a cider at the bar.

Mark: 00:27:57

That is a great way to support these people because there are so many now that

Mark: 00:28:01

in fact there's a lot of competition.

Mark: 00:28:03

So support your local one and that will do well.

Mark: 00:28:05

That's our podcast for this week.

Mark: 00:28:07

Thank you for being on the journey with us.

Mark: 00:28:09

Thanks for tuning in.

Mark: 00:28:10

We know that there is a vast.

Mark: 00:28:12

Landscape of podcasts out there, and it is absolutely fantastic that you've

Mark: 00:28:17

chosen to be part of our landscape.

Bruce: 00:28:20

And please go to our Facebook group cooking with Bruce and Mark and share

Bruce: 00:28:23

with us what's making you happy in food.

Bruce: 00:28:26

This week.

Bruce: 00:28:27

We would like to find out what's going on in your life with food, and we look

Bruce: 00:28:31

forward to sharing another episode with you of Cooking with Bruce and Mark.