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Episode 96

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Published on:

5th Jun 2023

Tune Up Your Grill, Our One-Minute Cooking Tip, An Interview With Ryan Mitchell, Pork Posole & More!

Let's talk grills. How to tune them up for the summer season. And let's talk to one of the best pit masters in the U. S.

We're veteran cookbook authors Bruce Weinstein & Mark Scarbrough. We've written over three dozen cookbooks and developed over 12,000 original recipes in our career. If you'd like to check out some of our work, click on the titles to see our 900-recipe ULTIMATE COOK BOOK or the inventive KITCHEN SHORTCUT BIBLE.

We let you know how to tune up your grill for summer. We've got a one-minute cooking tip about charcoal. Bruce interviews Ryan Mitchell, co-author of Ed Mitchell's Barbecue and king pit master of North Carolina barbecue. Plus, we let you know what's making us happy in food this week.

Thanks for spending time with us. Here are the segments for this episode of COOKING WITH BRUCE & MARK:

[01:03] How to tune up your grill for summer, whether you're using a gas or a charcoal grill.

[12:35] Our one-minute cooking tip: Use lump hardwood charcoal, rather than charcoal briquettes.

[14:47] Bruce interviews Ryan Mitchell, co-author of the book Ed Mitchell’s Barbecue. Our podcast scored the first (!) national interview with Ryan, long before he hit the morning TV shows and NPR.

[27:45] What’s making us happy in food this week? Pork posole!

Transcript
Bruce:

Hey, I'm Bruce Weinstein and this is the Podcast

Bruce:

Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

Mark:

And I'm Mark Scarborough.

Mark:

Together with Bruce, we have written three dozen and now counting cookbooks.

Mark:

And here's the weird thing, only one book on grilling a long time

Mark:

ago, although for many years.

Mark:

We did work for a major grilling company and Ghost wrote some of their

Mark:

books and developed recipes for them.

Mark:

So we know a lot about grilling and we wanna talk about grilling.

Mark:

This is gonna be a show largely about it.

Mark:

We're gonna talk about how to get your grill ready, whether it's gas or

Mark:

charcoal for the summer grilling season.

Mark:

We've got a one minute.

Mark:

Cooking tip.

Mark:

Bruce has an interview with Ryan Mitchell, who is a barbecue expert.

Mark:

We're not even talking grilling, we're talking barbecue on the

Mark:

real style, the southern style

Bruce:

Whole hog North Carolina barbecue.

Mark:

Oh, there you go.

Mark:

And we'll, of course, as always will tell you what's making

Mark:

us happy in food this week.

Mark:

So let's get started.

Bruce:

Summer's here and I'm grilling, although I grill all winter long.

Bruce:

So I don't know why I am so excited that I'm grilling in the

Bruce:

summer, but I am actually, what it means is summer means you even

Mark:

charcoal grill, sorry I'm interrupting you, but you even

Mark:

charcoal grill in the winter.

Mark:

And we live in rural New England and let me tell you this,

Mark:

winter is serious winter stuff.

Mark:

When I say.

Mark:

Grilling in the winter.

Mark:

I mean, where you have to shovel out to your grill.

Mark:

It's a kind of insane thing.

Bruce:

So what I have to do in the summer though, is clean my grills, right?

Bruce:

I've got gas grills and I've got charcoal grills and I'm using plurals.

Bruce:

Yes, I have multiple grills, and they do need to be maintained.

Bruce:

They are not self-sustaining pieces of cooking equipment.

Mark:

I know.

Mark:

And I think this is really something that a lot of people think that they.

Mark:

Are somehow you would never not clean your stove?

Mark:

Well, I suppose some people, well,

Bruce:

I, I've been to some houses where the stoves,

Mark:

I was gonna say, you would never not clean your oven, but I guess

Mark:

some people don't clean their ovens.

Mark:

But you would never not clean a pot.

Bruce:

This is true.

Bruce:

You wouldn't throw soup into a dirty pot.

Mark:

No, you would not.

Mark:

So grills need, uh, taken care of.

Mark:

We, a long time ago when we wrote.

Mark:

R one and only grilling book.

Mark:

We rented a house in northern Vermont and we had enough budget

Mark:

for this book to literally rent a house about a mile from the Canadian

Mark:

border in far northern Vermont.

Mark:

It's what our budget allowed, and so we rented this house so

Mark:

that we could write this book and have a nice house for the summer.

Mark:

It was a nice house.

Mark:

It was just literally in Nowheresville and then North.

Mark:

East Kingdom, if you know,

Bruce:

well, if you wonder why we had to rent a house, cause

Bruce:

we lived in an apartment Yeah.

Bruce:

In Manhattan.

Bruce:

And there was no way to grill.

Bruce:

And we were gonna write this grilling book.

Bruce:

So Mark said we took our budget and we drew a circle of where we could

Bruce:

afford, which was outside the circle.

Bruce:

Right.

Bruce:

And that was like almost in Canada.

Mark:

And they wanted, it was really, well they wanted game in this book.

Mark:

And so we drove from New York City.

Mark:

To far northern Vermont with a rack of elk in the back of our car along

Mark:

with game birds and everything.

Mark:

It was like this insane project.

Mark:

I didn't quite understand it all, but we certainly ate well, what?

Mark:

I don't understand.

Mark:

Course.

Mark:

The summer.

Mark:

Yeah.

Bruce:

Why didn't we wait till we got up there to get the game instead?

Bruce:

We paid like ottominelli's prices.

Bruce:

I dunno,

Mark:

the, you'd find an elk rack up there.

Mark:

I don't shoot one.

Mark:

I don't know.

Mark:

It's fri, I don't think they're elk in Vermont.

Mark:

And, uh, anyways, so we started doing that up there and grilling all that summer, but

Mark:

we had to find different kinds of grills.

Mark:

This house did have a grill, right?

Mark:

Remember this?

Mark:

Yeah.

Mark:

They had a grill.

Mark:

Yeah.

Mark:

And there was a, but we still . brought

Bruce:

a grill.

Bruce:

We did.

Bruce:

We brought a charcoal grill.

Bruce:

They had a gas grill.

Bruce:

Oh my gosh.

Bruce:

There's, there's a lot you have to do to both kinds of grills.

Bruce:

I mean, I know people think we'll have a gas grill.

Bruce:

I really have to do anything to it.

Bruce:

There's no charcoal, but not true.

Bruce:

You've got a grease strap in that gas grill.

Bruce:

And if you don't, then just look underneath cuz the grease is just

Bruce:

dripping and flowing on the ground.

Mark:

And if you live where we live in a rural area, if we leave our grease trap

Mark:

unattended, we get as I call them, furry, well wishers, which 800 pound furry.

Mark:

Well, I mean, which include bear.

Mark:

And they really want that grease trap because it stinks and it smells like food.

Mark:

And you know, I mean that's high nutrition stuff for them.

Mark:

Mm-hmm.

Mark:

So you have to clean out your grease trap and you do, because.

Mark:

Over time.

Mark:

Even if you live in warmer climates and don't have furry, well rushers as

Mark:

we do Y we will start to get rancid.

Mark:

Oh.

Mark:

And that rancid smell will actually get into your food.

Bruce:

It'll be over time.

Bruce:

It's disgusting.

Bruce:

And you have to inspect your burners a lot.

Bruce:

Not just the beginning of the year.

Bruce:

You have to do it even throughout the summer because spiderwebs, twigs,

Bruce:

dust bunnies, pollen can build up.

Bruce:

Mm-hmm.

Bruce:

And it can all block.

Bruce:

The burners.

Bruce:

Mm-hmm.

Bruce:

And block the flow of gas or doesn't let it ignite and

Bruce:

that could be a real problem.

Mark:

Usually what they say is that you should take for like the lines, right?

Mark:

You should take soapy water and run it along them and see if at

Mark:

any place the soap bubbles up.

Mark:

And that means there could be a leak.

Mark:

In the line.

Mark:

Mm-hmm.

Mark:

You want to immediately have that replaced, but by the way, we should

Mark:

just note that most detergent soaps are corrosive to copper.

Mark:

So once you do this, then you have to wash your copper connections.

Mark:

Yeah, really carefully.

Mark:

Because you'd wanna get all that corrosive stuff off.

Bruce:

And the other thing, a lot of gas grills have either

Bruce:

flavor bars where the flames shoot

Mark:

flavor bar, it feels like it needs a TM after it flavor bars.

Bruce:

Tm, I think they are actually.

Bruce:

Mm-hmm.

Bruce:

And that's where the flame shoots up and hits these metal bars, which creates

Bruce:

smoke and flavor, or they have lava rocks or ceramic briquettes that heat up.

Bruce:

Right, right, right.

Bruce:

All of those need replacing every few years.

Mark:

Let me, let me ask you this about.

Mark:

The grills, since we're talking about gas grills.

Mark:

So many years ago, we went to this giant grilling expo in Atlanta.

Mark:

We were invited as guests to do cooking demos there and, uh, by this, uh, grill

Mark:

maker that we were working for and.

Mark:

And ghost riding for, so we went down there and we had a lovely time at this.

Mark:

It was giant.

Mark:

It was like football fields and football fields of grilling and grill wear.

Mark:

But everybody was crazed.

Mark:

This is maybe 10 years ago for infrared grilling.

Mark:

It was like every single grill we saw was infrared was,

Bruce:

it was

Mark:

the

Bruce:

hot thing of that year and I don't see it anywhere.

Bruce:

What is, what is the deal?

Bruce:

I don't even where to go see it.

Bruce:

Any, I don't know.

Bruce:

I don't, I see very few grills with infrared.

Bruce:

The only infrared that you might see fairly often, and we actually have an.

Bruce:

Our grill is the rotisserie burner, right?

Bruce:

Which is, you know, the burner that's on the back face of the grill.

Bruce:

It's on the inside, but it's on the back of the grill, right?

Bruce:

Facing in.

Bruce:

Right.

Bruce:

And so when I'm rotisserie a chicken or a roast beef, the flames are,

Bruce:

you know, shooting at it, just like in one of those chicken stores,

Mark:

right?

Mark:

But I mean that 10 years ago, they were predicting that infrared

Mark:

was gonna take over the world.

Mark:

It didn't.

Mark:

It didn't.

Mark:

No.

Mark:

Well, maybe it will, but I, you must still be out there, the infrared, but we're

Mark:

not speaking about cleaning and getting infrared grills ready if you happen to

Mark:

have one of these cutting edge utensils.

Mark:

The infrared grill, we're talking about gas grills.

Mark:

But again, do check all your connections.

Mark:

Do check everywhere that you can for grease.

Mark:

Do clean it up.

Mark:

Make sure you clean up your grate.

Mark:

On the grill.

Mark:

You can check your manufacturer's website to figure out how to clean the grate

Mark:

properly to get it ready for cooking.

Mark:

Listen, this stuff burned on your grill grate is gross, so get it off.

Mark:

It's disgusting.

Mark:

Yeah, get it off.

Mark:

Okay, so let's talk about charcoal grills.

Bruce:

Scoop out the ashes.

Bruce:

Don't let them build up.

Bruce:

It's disgusting cuz they will fly up and get on your food.

Bruce:

Eventually you have to scoop out the ashes from your fireplace, right?

Bruce:

There's no more room.

Bruce:

Well, the same thing happens on your grill when there's no more room.

Bruce:

For fresh charcoal, you're in trouble.

Bruce:

But don't wait that long because the ashes are gross, and then they just get up

Bruce:

into the flutes and scoop out the ashes.

Mark:

I think people don't think about this, about charcoal grills,

Mark:

but do check the rivet joints and the places where, let's say the legs

Mark:

attached to the body, check all those places to make sure they're tight.

Mark:

You do not want a charcoal grill falling over.

Mark:

Oh, gosh, gosh.

Mark:

Or a leg falling off while you're grilling.

Mark:

You don't want that to happen, so just it doesn't take, you

Mark:

could start a five, five minute.

Mark:

To check that and check where the handle is on the lid.

Mark:

Mm-hmm.

Mark:

Because again, if that lid were to pop off that handle when it was

Mark:

hot, it could be D, very dangerous.

Mark:

Not anything that you want to happen.

Bruce:

And the air vents, all charcoal girls have air vents.

Bruce:

Make sure that they're.

Bruce:

In workable condition that they turn easily, that they're not blocked.

Bruce:

Otherwise, you ain't gonna be having any good barbecuing going on.

Bruce:

No.

Bruce:

And if you want to improve your barbecue game, why are you

Bruce:

using charcoal lighter fluid?

Bruce:

Oh, well that just makes you burgers taste like charcoal lighter fluid.

Bruce:

Yeah.

Bruce:

Yeah.

Bruce:

Get a chimney, buy a little,

Mark:

it is a hum Simpson thing.

Mark:

And put like three bottles of it on it, and then suddenly like the whole grill

Mark:

explodes and you're like, oh, perfect.

Mark:

So,

Bruce:

no, it's not perfect.

Bruce:

So get a chimney instead of that.

Bruce:

And when you are grilling, cover the grill.

Bruce:

Put the lid down.

Bruce:

Mm-hmm.

Bruce:

Don't grill with the lid up.

Bruce:

Rarely.

Bruce:

It's not an effective way to grill.

Mark:

Rarely.

Mark:

I mean, really rarely.

Mark:

You can grill with the lid off for super fast things.

Mark:

Right.

Mark:

You're gonna

Bruce:

have huge flames shooting up because of all the air.

Bruce:

Even

Mark:

burgers.

Mark:

You should put the lid on

Bruce:

it.

Bruce:

Yeah, you'll get more smoke happening and you'll get more smoke flavor.

Bruce:

If you leave the lid open, there's more oxygen.

Bruce:

Feeding the fire, shooting up a flames, your food is more likely to get burned

Bruce:

and not a delicious smokey taste.

Mark:

And let, let's say, while we're talking about grilling, and now we're

Mark:

gonna talk about the grill, but we're talking, since I brought burgers

Mark:

up, I'm just gonna mention this.

Mark:

Don't press down on a burger.

Mark:

On the grill.

Mark:

You can't make smash burgers on a grill.

Mark:

You need a griddle for smash burgers unless you have.

Mark:

Pre smash them until they're very flat in the kitchen.

Mark:

You can't do the standard smash burger technique.

Mark:

And when you smash down with the back of a spatula, I know everybody's

Mark:

dad did this, but all you're doing is squeezing out all the juice.

Mark:

What are you doing?

Mark:

All you're doing, you're trying

Bruce:

it dry, you're squeezing it out.

Bruce:

The fat will drip down.

Bruce:

It'll make a flame shoot up.

Bruce:

But don't do that.

Bruce:

As Mark said and.

Bruce:

Don't turn them endlessly.

Bruce:

I know you turn them once.

Bruce:

I'm really guilty.

Bruce:

All you need to do is turn them once.

Mark:

I'm really guilty of overturning.

Mark:

When I was a kid, I was the one who grilled in our house.

Mark:

Uh, from about when I was about maybe 12 on I grilled dinner and mom would buy

Mark:

steaks or burgers or whatever, pork chops and I would grill them in the summer and.

Mark:

I was just the Mr.

Mark:

You know, oh, turn it, and then 30 seconds later, turn it and then 30 seconds later

Mark:

turn it and then count to 20 and turn it, and then count to 10 and turn it.

Mark:

So it and it, what my problem was is that I was trying to get my.

Mark:

Burgers and my steaks super rare.

Mark:

Yeah.

Mark:

Cause my family liked them all well done.

Mark:

And I basically liked them so that a good vet could see You still like it that way.

Mark:

I know.

Mark:

And so I, I was trying to somehow save mine by turning them repeatedly,

Mark:

but no, you really shouldn't.

Bruce:

I saw an interesting TikTok video this morning.

Bruce:

On grilling and some guy was doing skirt steaks and he was saying how it

Bruce:

takes, you know, like an hour to two if not overnight, to marinate them.

Bruce:

Oh right.

Bruce:

And he said rather than do that, he marinates them after.

Bruce:

I'm like, isn't that just putting dressing on a steak?

Bruce:

So anyway, he grilled his skirt steaks and then he poured his oil

Bruce:

vinegar or marinade over at the end.

Bruce:

No.

Bruce:

And I'm like that.

Mark:

Does that work?

Mark:

No.

Mark:

No.

Mark:

Well, okay.

Mark:

It won't work for me because although I like my, I dunno about skirt

Mark:

steak, but I like beef super rare.

Mark:

I also like a crusty char on the outside of it.

Mark:

What I want is it charred and then rare inside and that dressing would

Mark:

turn that char soft and soften it up.

Mark:

Yeah.

Mark:

Oh no.

Mark:

No, no, no, no.

Bruce:

And the dressing's also what's gonna help get the char

Bruce:

the fat, and it's gonna sizzle the sugar in it is gonna burn on.

Bruce:

Yeah.

Bruce:

Yeah.

Bruce:

That was the weirdest thing I'd ever seen.

Mark:

Well see.

Mark:

TikTok ERs don't know everything.

Mark:

While we're stopped on that, let me just say, if you don't know, we have a TikTok

Mark:

channel cooking with Bruce and Mar.

Mark:

Go.

Mark:

What a shock you can become.

Mark:

Our friend there on TikTok, we have a ton of videos going up every week,

Mark:

mostly about air frying right now.

Mark:

Although there are other videos that are going up and you should check that out.

Mark:

You can be our friend on TikTok and we would love to hang out with you there.

Mark:

I know, it's crazy.

Mark:

They let us on the Gen Zers, who couldn't believe it.

Mark:

Okay, up next, as is traditional.

Mark:

Our one minute cooking tip,

Bruce:

skip the charcoal briquette.

Bruce:

And by yourself?

Bruce:

Hardwood, lump,

Mark:

charcoal.

Mark:

Okay.

Mark:

Can now you're gonna have to stop and say what that is.

Bruce:

Charcoal is made by burning wood.

Bruce:

Right?

Bruce:

Right.

Bruce:

And what's left is the charcoal to make briquettes.

Bruce:

That charcoal is ground up into a powder and formed into

Bruce:

little cubes, little briquettes.

Bruce:

Right, right.

Bruce:

They also sometimes add stuff into them.

Bruce:

There's filler added, and you don't get as delicious a wood taste if you

Bruce:

just use the charcoal in its wood form.

Bruce:

So you buy lump.

Bruce:

Charcoal, which is so hardwood, which expensive.

Bruce:

It's more expensive than briquettes, but it burns hotter.

Bruce:

And the nice thing is it also leaves much less residue.

Bruce:

Yeah.

Bruce:

So you're gonna have less ash.

Bruce:

You'll have to, as we said earlier, clean it out.

Bruce:

You're gonna have to clean it out less often.

Bruce:

So Right.

Bruce:

Go for the hardwood, lump charcoal.

Mark:

Before we get to our big barbecuing interview on this episode of Cooking with

Mark:

Bruce, mark, let me say, it would be great if you could subscribe to this podcast.

Mark:

If you could rate it even a comment like Great podcast does wonders for us.

Mark:

We are unsupported.

Mark:

Thank you for finding us and being with us on this journey.

Mark:

If you would like to be with us more, I know you would, right?

Mark:

Who wouldn't?

Mark:

You can sign up for a newsletter, go to our website.

Mark:

Bruce and mark.com or cooking with Bruce and mark.com, it

Mark:

all goes to the same place.

Mark:

And there there is a form to fill out for our newsletter.

Mark:

And let me just say that I have blocked it so I don't see you sign up.

Mark:

I just see a number, like three people signed up today.

Mark:

That's all I see.

Mark:

But I can't see your name, I can't see your email, and you can always

Mark:

unsubscribe at any given moment.

Mark:

I do this so that I protect you so that your name and

Mark:

email can't be sold by anyone.

Mark:

So, Check it out there on our website, Bruce and mark.com.

Mark:

Up next Bruce's interview with Ryan Mitchell.

Mark:

He and his dad, right?

Mark:

His dad.

Bruce:

His dad.

Bruce:

Ed Mitchell.

Mark:

Yeah.

Mark:

All right.

Mark:

They have got, uh, North Carolina Barbecue House that is legendary Ed Mitchell's

Mark:

barbecue, and they have a new book out.

Mark:

Ed Mitchell's barbecue at Mitchell's Barbecue.

Mark:

So up next Bruce with Ryan.

Bruce:

Today we're talking barbecue with Ryan Mitchell.

Bruce:

He is the business savvy brain behind his father's brand.

Bruce:

Ed Mitchell's Barbecue.

Bruce:

He's also the co-author along with his father of the new

Bruce:

book, ed Mitchell's Barbecue.

Bruce:

Hey, Ryan, welcome.

Ryan:

How you doing Bruce?

Ryan:

Thank you for having me.

Bruce:

Hey, your book is the story of your family, the history of the Mitchell

Bruce:

family, as well as incredible recipes for classic barbecue and southern food.

Bruce:

And I've heard you say in other interviews that your family got into the barbecue

Bruce:

business from a place of pain as opposed to like barbecue competitions and.

Bruce:

What did that journey look like?

Ryan:

You know, it was a very, uh, you know, it was spiritual.

Ryan:

It was emotional.

Ryan:

Um, it, it, it has always been positioned in a place of hospitality

Ryan:

and love for taking care of people.

Ryan:

But, you know, uh, just to take you back, my grandfather passed away

Ryan:

in 1991 and you know, at that point him and my grandmother were running

Ryan:

a little corner grocery store.

Ryan:

And so they only just sold, you know, local meats and cheeses and fresh

Ryan:

produce, fresh meats, you know, your typical corner neighborhood bodega, no

Ryan:

prepared foods or anything at that time.

Ryan:

So when my grandfather passed away, you know, we were honestly, you know, just

Ryan:

kind of staring at, you know, estate issues, property foreclosures, and

Ryan:

things of that nature that comes along with losing, you know, the, the, the.

Ryan:

Family, uh, you know, breadwinner, you know, my grandmother's

Ryan:

therapy for grieving is cooking.

Ryan:

You know, she takes care of, you know, people at the church, the neighborhood,

Ryan:

you know, she just cooks at home and, and just, you know, that's her way of

Ryan:

getting everybody through hard times.

Ryan:

And so, when I mentioned a place of pain, you know, we were sitting there

Ryan:

just kind of trying to figure out what to do and how we would wanna, you know,

Ryan:

continue to earn income and earn a living, uh, you know, in this, in this turmoil.

Ryan:

And we cooked some barbecue.

Ryan:

My, well, my, my grandmother and my father just, you know, and my two

Ryan:

uncles, uh, just cooked a pig that day.

Ryan:

That was just meant for a family dinner, wasn't meant to be sold.

Ryan:

And we end up, uh, having leftovers that we gave away to a customer.

Ryan:

At the end of the day, that was just coming into the grocery store to buy

Ryan:

some soda, and that turned into us just going through this tremendous,

Ryan:

you know, 20, 30 year journey of cooking, whole barbecue and kind of

Ryan:

going back to some family or ancestral.

Ryan:

Crafts skills of cooking whole hog, barbecue, you know, that was a void

Ryan:

inside of the city at that moment.

Ryan:

So started out, you know, as a grieving process and just a way

Ryan:

to try and make ends meet and turn into, you know, what it is today.

Ryan:

So that story man is, um, It's probably, you know, kind of

Ryan:

an American dream, so to say.

Bruce:

Whole hog barbecue, as you say, is what you specialize

Bruce:

in, and it is the first recipe in your book how to do a whole hog.

Bruce:

But for most suburban cooks, a whole hog isn't necessarily something

Bruce:

they can easily do at home.

Bruce:

Do you have any advice for home cooks who wanna try and

Bruce:

recreate your classic barbecue?

Ryan:

You know, we start out with the whole hog and then, uh,

Ryan:

later on in the book we add in the pork shoulder and the Boston.

Ryan:

And so, um, The shoulders, the hams are just as good.

Ryan:

You know, you smoke those, put those on a grill, you know,

Ryan:

in a, in a smaller setting.

Ryan:

And we have a recipe in there that includes our vinegar based

Ryan:

barbecue sauce and our, and our, uh, Carolina Classic barbecue rub.

Ryan:

And that gives you, you know, at least some renditions of the seasoning that

Ryan:

goes into it when you don't have time to.

Ryan:

You know, spend 12 hours trying to cook a hog or, or, or the space, you know.

Bruce:

Uh, let's talk about that sauce for a second.

Bruce:

One of the early partnership products you made with your dad was a line

Bruce:

of zero sugar barbecue sauces.

Bruce:

So why'd you create them and where'd the inspiration come from?

Ryan:

You know, we got into the barbecue sauce business early

Ryan:

in the late nineties, honestly.

Ryan:

Uh, we were selling out of our restaurant and just a lo one local like.

Ryan:

Gas station, gro grocery store that was carrying us.

Ryan:

Um, you know, and that that recipe, you know, was uh, was just something

Ryan:

we just kind of kept close to the vest.

Ryan:

And then, um, right around 2016, 17, my father was diagnosed with diabetes and we.

Ryan:

Uh, you know, were approached from a couple of different friends of mine,

Ryan:

business partners of mine to try and, uh, recreate a barbecue sauce, you

Ryan:

know, with the same natural recipes, but removing some of the sugar and that, you

Ryan:

know, grocery stores were looking for, you know, some minority owned products

Ryan:

that were taking the better for you.

Ryan:

And so we decided to really just kind of hone in on that and try to use our

Ryan:

platform to kinda raise awareness on, you know, some of the, um, you know, the, the,

Ryan:

the health, you know, change the profile of barbecue sauces, you know, because

Ryan:

every sauce on the shelf has gotten to ingredients full of sugar and full of, uh,

Ryan:

you know, GMOs and all types of things.

Ryan:

And so our family recipe.

Ryan:

Really was simple.

Ryan:

My grandmother didn't pour volumes of sugar on everything.

Ryan:

She would just take, uh, butternut squash, carrots, even some fruits, and she

Ryan:

would them down to a serum and she would use that as a sweetener and pies and.

Ryan:

Sauces, you know, any type of condiment.

Ryan:

Anytime we needed something secret sweetener to one of her

Ryan:

recipes, she would use one of her little, you know, concoctions.

Ryan:

And so that's where the inspiration came from, uh, to really just, you

Ryan:

know, we took butternut squash and carrots and a little bit of apple and

Ryan:

we used as a sweetener and you know, it mixed well with the barbecue sauce

Bruce:

you write in the book about barbecue brisket as being.

Bruce:

The most scrutinized meat to come out of the pit at barbecue competitions.

Bruce:

And that, I love this cuz you say you didn't enter the

Bruce:

barbecue game for aesthetics.

Bruce:

Yeah.

Bruce:

You cooked brisket to eat, not to show.

Bruce:

That's right.

Bruce:

So your recipe says, After five hours in the smoker, you wrap the brisket.

Bruce:

Is that the secret to making it as delicious as possible?

Bruce:

Why do you do that?

Ryan:

You know, here in the Carolinas, the brisket wasn't,

Ryan:

you know, the go-to piece of meat.

Ryan:

You know, we gravitate to pork.

Ryan:

The brisket is Texas competition.

Ryan:

Uh, barbecue.

Ryan:

What we found out was a, you know, we put it at the smoker for about five hours

Ryan:

at, at a little bit higher heat than what you would probably normal normally have

Ryan:

in, in some of the competition styles.

Ryan:

And at that five point mark you could pull it.

Ryan:

And you wrap it and you let it, you know, finish the cooking

Ryan:

process in a wrap state and it kind of really just self tenderizes.

Ryan:

It kind of gives it, uh, you know, another four and a half, five hour period for

Ryan:

the meat to be a little bit less tough and more consistent, more able to slice.

Ryan:

It's not the prettiest piece because when you're wrapping it with four,

Ryan:

sometimes the, the, the fat and the best parts of it kinda get removed

Ryan:

when you're kind of doing it that way.

Ryan:

But it's the tasties.

Ryan:

Way to, uh, enjoy brisket here when you, uh, are cooking it the way we do.

Bruce:

Uh, in the book, your dad talks about the pig bar.

Bruce:

In the restaurant.

Bruce:

Can, can you tell me about that?

Ryan:

The pig bar was really just, you know, an area at, you know, just picture

Ryan:

a regular sitting bar, but we have a half of a whole hog sitting there, uh,

Ryan:

in front of the customers or the line of customers that are able to sit at the bar.

Ryan:

And you're able to have a, um, a bartend kind of give you the

Ryan:

experience of being at a, a.

Ryan:

You know, a old-fashioned barbecue pick picking, right?

Ryan:

Mm-hmm.

Ryan:

And you can kind of pick and choose the pieces of the hall that you

Ryan:

would like to have and sample, you know, right there in front of you.

Ryan:

And, uh, pre covid, you know, we had a, we, we were allowing, um,

Ryan:

customers to kind of enjoy it with their themselves, and they could pick,

Ryan:

but now you have to have a little bit more, you know, structure in place.

Ryan:

So we'll have someone kind of.

Ryan:

Giving it to you for you, but at least you get to see the animal and see, you

Ryan:

know, how, where, where your favorite pieces of meat come from, you know?

Ryan:

And that was the whole part of it.

Bruce:

Hey Ryan, there's a recipe in the book that I love this title.

Bruce:

I don't eat everybody's potato salad.

Bruce:

What's the story behind that

Ryan:

black barbecue culture?

Ryan:

You know, there's certain dishes that you, you know, bring to a cookout

Ryan:

that are, you know, Scrutinizes and family and friends wanna know

Ryan:

who made it, where it came from.

Ryan:

It's kinda, you know, one of those, uh, high profile dishes

Ryan:

that come to the family barbecue.

Ryan:

And usually there's only, you know, a handful of, uh, elder family members who

Ryan:

can make it, you know, just Right, right.

Ryan:

So the, the term I don't eat everybody's potato salad is something you'll

Ryan:

generally hear around the cookout, cuz everybody wants to know who made it.

Ryan:

So that was a funny way of kinda bringing in, um, one of our, one

Ryan:

of our favorite, uh, side dishes.

Bruce:

Well, let's talk about another one of your grandmother's dishes.

Bruce:

In the book, it's referred to as the oddball carrot cake.

Bruce:

Was your grandmother an oddball or is the carrot cake an oddball

Bruce:

carrot cake is an oddball.

Ryan:

Uh, you know, my grandmother, so again, uh, you know, it was my

Ryan:

favorite dessert growing up that she made at the church in the south.

Ryan:

Uh, you know, after service, you know, we would feed the, uh, clergy and we would

Ryan:

feed, you know, the members and have these very nice after church dinners.

Ryan:

And so, you know, as people know, the women in the kitchen of a Southern

Ryan:

Baptist church are pretty competitive about, you know, the stuff that they

Ryan:

bring and the stuff that they cook.

Ryan:

It's not a competition, but it is a competition to them.

Ryan:

You know, so our desserts, uh, you know, were always, you know, one

Ryan:

of the highly requested things and the ladies of the kitchen would get

Ryan:

into these little battles about, um, you know, who made the best carrot

Ryan:

cake, chocolate cake, or whatever.

Ryan:

So, My grandmother's secret to separating hers visually was to add,

Ryan:

uh, like a yellow food color into it.

Ryan:

So it's called the oddball cric because the icing is yellow and that separated it.

Ryan:

Once you got to the back kitchen in the church, the pastors and the members who

Ryan:

were looking for H cake knew that Mother Mitchell's was the yellow one over there.

Bruce:

There's another recipe in the dessert chapter that I wanna talk

Bruce:

about, something I'd never heard of.

Bruce:

Country boy chew bread.

Bruce:

What is it?

Ryan:

It's basically, um, we'll just say it's like a cookie bar, so to say.

Ryan:

It's kind of a southern rendition on a brownie without the chocolate.

Ryan:

And really just the ingenuity of just taking some of the leftovers

Ryan:

around, um, around the kitchen, man, you know, the flour, eggs, and

Ryan:

little bit of, uh, vanilla flavor and walnuts if you choose brown sugar.

Ryan:

And it was real and a really easy dessert that, uh, my grand, my grandmother and

Ryan:

the elders just used to make, to kinda keep the kids at bay until they finish.

Ryan:

The pies and the cakes and some of the other bigger desserts

Ryan:

that were gonna be on the table.

Ryan:

But it was something very simple that they could just whip up and have, uh, you

Ryan:

know, like a little mini cookie brownie.

Ryan:

But, uh, there's a couple of renditions, you know, each culture

Ryan:

has, but ours is called chew bread cuz it's a little bit chewier.

Ryan:

Um, and consistency is a little different, but it's, but it's very good

Bruce:

from desserts back to the whole hog.

Bruce:

This book.

Bruce:

Ed Mitchell's barbecue is filled with amazing recipes for the

Bruce:

taste of your family's barbecue.

Bruce:

The stories of your family are just wonderful to read.

Bruce:

Hey, great.

Bruce:

Good luck with the book, ed Mitchell's Barbecue, and thank you for spending

Bruce:

some time with me this morning.

Ryan:

Thank you so much for having us.

Ryan:

I appreciate it.

Mark:

There's just nothing like good barbecue.

Mark:

There really isn't, and it is such an.

Mark:

Art It is.

Mark:

I think that, you know, I, to go back to TikTok, I saw these Brit guys who have

Mark:

been on like a yearlong tour of the United States, and one of the things they keep

Mark:

coming back to these two Brits is that they are just undone by American barbecue.

Mark:

They wouldn't be undone by the whole brisket, Fandango, and.

Mark:

Just like me, they are crazed about brisket.

Mark:

I am, I'm a Texas boy and I believe, you know, a real

Mark:

barbecue joint by that brisket.

Bruce:

Well, I love Ryan's way of doing it where you wrap that

Bruce:

brisket after a few hours so it doesn't overs smoke, it stays moist.

Bruce:

And as he said, it's not the most beautiful brisket because you don't

Bruce:

necessarily have the crunchy bark on it and some pieces get pulled off.

Bruce:

But you're making brisket to eat it, not to look at it.

Bruce:

Yeah,

Mark:

it's true.

Mark:

And, you know, uh, the, this is gonna, sorry, we're banging on here

Mark:

before we get to what's happening, make us happy and food this week.

Mark:

But this is gonna be super controversial, but I don't like burnt ends.

Mark:

And I'm a Texas boy.

Mark:

I grew up on barbecue.

Mark:

I grew up on serious barbecue, serious places that we would go, where they,

Mark:

they tended it all night and they would sell until they were sold out.

Mark:

Yep.

Mark:

Those kind of places.

Mark:

And I never heard of Burnt Ends until I became an adult.

Mark:

And then I became an adult and I saw the burnt ends and I

Mark:

don't, it's like sweet charcoal.

Mark:

Yeah.

Mark:

I don't, I don't get it.

Bruce:

You have to like the sweet, you have to like the

Bruce:

burned and they're also all dried.

Bruce:

And I like the burn, but they're also dry.

Bruce:

They're not, it's not the fatty, fatty pieces.

Bruce:

Yeah.

Bruce:

See

Mark:

that's, I like burn on my steak, but I don't like just.

Mark:

Charcoal with sugar.

Mark:

That, that to me is like, I don't get it.

Mark:

I, I want a good slice of brisket that is juicy fatty.

Mark:

Oh my God.

Mark:

Oh my gosh.

Mark:

So since we're talking about all that, let's talk about what's

Mark:

making us happy in food this week.

Bruce:

Pork pozole.

Mark:

Oh, that was gonna be my, well then you talk about it.

Mark:

No, well, okay.

Mark:

I'll talk about it.

Mark:

Fine.

Mark:

So last night we went to a friend's house and we played bridge.

Mark:

Bruce and I do play a mean game of Bridge and we played

Mark:

bridge with six other people.

Mark:

And Bruce was kind enough to bring dinner to a friend's house

Mark:

and he made pork Paola Verde and.

Mark:

It is one of my childhood Texas favorite thing.

Mark:

So how did you make your pork paoli?

Mark:

Well, I

Bruce:

did not use canned pozole.

Bruce:

I had dried, he means he means canned harmony.

Bruce:

Yeah, canned harmony.

Bruce:

Instead, I had dried harmony and it had to be slay.

Bruce:

It had to be nix symbolized, and it was ized, which means you soak

Bruce:

it in lie and you get all the skins off it and then you cook it.

Bruce:

And I had a beautiful.

Bruce:

Four and a half pound boneless pork shoulder from ButcherBox and I cut it

Bruce:

into pieces and I browned all those pieces in bacon fat, cuz of course first

Bruce:

I fried up a pound of bacon and then I took those out in when lots of onions and

Bruce:

garlic and chopped up poblano peppers.

Bruce:

Right, right, right.

Bruce:

And tons of tomatillos when I was.

Mark:

Pork PA Verde was a thing when I lived in Austin.

Mark:

You, you probably know I'm from Texas and I grew up in Dallas, but

Mark:

uh, I lived in Austin when Bruce met me and I was teaching at St.

Mark:

Edwards University and there was a place downtown called Los Manita run

Mark:

by these two women and it was a place to go for breakfast and they made.

Mark:

Pork Paolo Verde and to go to Las Manita and have pork Paolo Verde with for

Mark:

breakfast poached eggs and tortillas, they would poach the eggs right in

Mark:

the pa sole and serve it in balls.

Mark:

Oh gosh.

Mark:

It was so delicious.

Mark:

It's just something that is comfort food out of my childhood.

Mark:

If you don't know about Paso, where should you get a good recipe from?

Mark:

Paso?

Bruce:

In our book, grain mains.

Bruce:

No, there is, I didn't even anticipate this one.

Bruce:

Lovely.

Bruce:

There you go.

Bruce:

Pork Posole Verde, which is the recipe I used last night.

Mark:

If you don't know, we have a book called Grain Mains, where every

Mark:

single recipe uses whole grains as the main ingredient, and it's all

Mark:

main coarse recipes with whole grains.

Mark:

Mm-hmm.

Mark:

So it's a, it's not a vegetarian or vegan book, although there

Mark:

are vegetarian, vegan recipes.

Mark:

Yeah, right.

Mark:

But there, uh, but it's wheat berries and o berries and.

Mark:

Ribber and it's using whole grains to form the ballast of the main course and

Mark:

NTA moated corn counts that does that.

Mark:

So that's the podcast for this week.

Mark:

Thanks for being with us.

Mark:

We know there are a million choices out there for podcasts, even food podcasts.

Mark:

Thank you for choosing ours and being on this journey with us.

Mark:

We certainly appreciate your being.

Mark:

here.

Bruce:

Hey, if you've got a favorite barbecue recipe, something you like to

Bruce:

throw in the grill, go to our Facebook group cooking with Bruce and Mark.

Bruce:

Share it.

Bruce:

Share a picture of it.

Bruce:

Tell us what you like to do.

Bruce:

We'll share some of our favorite recipes, and we will see you for another episode

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About the Podcast

Cooking with Bruce and Mark
Fantastic recipes, culinary science, a little judgment, hysterical banter, love and laughs--you know, life.
Join us, Bruce Weinstein and Mark Scarbrough, for weekly episodes all about food, cooking, recipes, and maybe a little marital strife on air. After writing thirty-six cookbooks, we've got countless opinions and ideas on ingredients, recipes, the nature of the cookbook-writing business, and much more. If you've got a passion for food, we also hope to up your game once and a while and to make you laugh most of the time. Come along for the ride! There's plenty of room!

About your host

Profile picture for Mark Scarbrough

Mark Scarbrough

Former lit professor, current cookbook writer, creator of two podcasts, writer of thirty-five (and counting) cookbooks, author of one memoir (coming soon!), married to a chef (my cookbook co-writer, Bruce Weinstein), and with him, the owner of two collies, all in a very rural spot in New England. My life's full and I'm up for more challenges!