WELCOME TO OUR KITCHEN: Renato Poliafito, author of DOLCI!
We're Bruce Weinstein & Mark Scarbrough, veteran cookbook authors with over three dozen cookbooks published under our own names. We've also been contributing editors and columnists for the likes of EATING WELL, COOKING LIGHT, and weightwatchers.com.
This podcast is about our passion: food and cooking. We're so happy you joined us. Thank you for that.
If you'd like to buy Renato's new baking book, DOLCI: AMERICAN BAKING WITH AN ITALIAN ACCENT, you can find it here.
Here are the segments for this episode of this podcast:
[00:52] Our one-minute cooking tip: Cover a cutting board with plastic wrap to carry raw meats out to the grill.
[01:59] Bruce interviews Renato Poliafito, owner of a Brooklyn bakeshop and author of the brand-new cookbook DOLCI: AMERICAN BAKING WITH AN ITALIAN ACCENT.
[18:37] What’s making us happy in food this week: curried lentils and cannoli. (Bruce says "cannoli" for one. Don't write in. We've hashed it out enough!)
Transcript
Hey, I'm Bruce Weinstein, and this is the podcast Cooking with Bruce and Mark.
Speaker:And I'm Mark Scarborough.
Speaker:And together, Bruce and I, well, have been married a long time, but also written 36
Speaker:cookbooks and are working on number 37.
Speaker:This is our podcast about food and cooking, the major passions of our life.
Speaker:If you've ever been around us personally, you know that it's not just cookbooks.
Speaker:We cook for people like mad people.
Speaker:Uh, we cook like dinner parties that are unbelievable and we
Speaker:have friends over all the time.
Speaker:Food is truly Part of who we are.
Speaker:And this is our podcast in which we get to express that passion.
Speaker:We've got a one minute cooking tip about cooking outdoors.
Speaker:We've got a interview segment in this episode of the podcast with a cookbook
Speaker:author, we'll tell you all about that coming up and we'll tell you what's
Speaker:making us happy in food this week.
Speaker:So let's get started.
Speaker:Our one minute cooking tip.
Speaker:More help for cooking outdoors.
Speaker:When you're bringing burgers, or chicken, or steaks, or ribs to your grill,
Speaker:line the cutting board with plastic.
Speaker:Uh, what?
Speaker:Plastic
Speaker:wrap.
Speaker:Fine, line it with
Speaker:plastic.
Speaker:I'm gonna go get a plastic outdoor pool and put it on my cutting board.
Speaker:Come on.
Speaker:Okay, plastic
Speaker:wrap.
Speaker:There you go.
Speaker:And then once the meat is on the grill, you could take that plastic
Speaker:wrap off and throw it out because you don't want to cross contaminate
Speaker:putting cooked meat back onto a cutting board that had raw meat on it.
Speaker:It's
Speaker:the way to save yourself having to have two cutting boards or rushing back into
Speaker:the kitchen and cleaning a cutting board.
Speaker:Which you can do if you're opposed to plastic.
Speaker:Handing it to your husband and having him clean it while
Speaker:you stand there at the grill.
Speaker:So anyway, yes, it's a great tip to coat the cutting board in plastic wrap and then
Speaker:take The stuff out to the grill on it.
Speaker:Okay, great.
Speaker:That's our cooking tip for this episode of the podcast.
Speaker:Let's get to that next segment.
Speaker:We haven't had an interview in a long time.
Speaker:And in this segment, Bruce is going to interview Renato Poliafito.
Speaker:He is the author of the brand new cookbook, Dolce, American
Speaker:baking with an Italian accent.
Speaker:Renato Poliafito is a baker, entrepreneur, cookbook author, creator
Speaker:of the original baked cafe in Red Hook, Brooklyn, and now owns and runs.
Speaker:Ciao, Gloria, a bakery and cafe also in Brooklyn.
Speaker:His new book is just out, Dolce American Baking with an Italian accent.
Speaker:Welcome, Renato.
Speaker:Well, thank you very much.
Speaker:I'm very
Speaker:excited to be here.
Speaker:You write in the intro of your new book about your experiences as an
Speaker:American kid of Italian immigrants, and you claim that immigration both
Speaker:preserves and evolves traditions.
Speaker:Can you talk about that?
Speaker:What means to you and how does that manifest in your baking?
Speaker:Well, I mean, I think that, you know, as as an American and also as like a second
Speaker:generation American, my parents, as you said, are they're actually from Sicily.
Speaker:Um, they, uh, You know, I think all cultures when they come to the
Speaker:US, um, merge and kind of become this, you know, a melting pot.
Speaker:So every culture, everything influences each other.
Speaker:So Italian American culture is a little different than Italian culture
Speaker:because it has an American infusion.
Speaker:And it happens to all, uh, cultures that immigrate to this country.
Speaker:And it shows through my baking.
Speaker:Um, mine in particular, simply because I had so many years at Baked,
Speaker:which was a classic American bakery.
Speaker:But I had all this kind of Italian background.
Speaker:So, uh, when Chow Gloria, the idea of Chow Gloria came about, I, I wanted to
Speaker:marry those two parts of me into one kind of cohesive, Uh, like point of view.
Speaker:And you did that in the new book, even the subtitle, American
Speaker:Baking with an Italian Twist.
Speaker:You start off the book with Cucidati Scones, and most folks in the U.
Speaker:S.
Speaker:know what scones are.
Speaker:Perhaps what not cucidati are.
Speaker:So what are they, and how did you meld the two together?
Speaker:Well, you know, it was funny because I, I love the components of a accucciadati.
Speaker:Accucciadati is basically what I call like a, a proto fig newton.
Speaker:Um, it's a classic Italian, um, uh, cookie usually, uh, eaten around
Speaker:the holidays and it's a fig filled, uh, kind of short crust cookie.
Speaker:And they go from the very simple where they're just like a simply dipped in
Speaker:a glaze with a few kind of nonpareils.
Speaker:to the elaborate, um, where they're kind of cut and incised and shaped into
Speaker:these really ornate organic shapes.
Speaker:Um, super, super gorgeous.
Speaker:The fig filling could vary from region to region, um, but usually
Speaker:it's a mixture of nuts and fig paste and a little bit of alcohol and
Speaker:candied fruit, sometimes chocolate.
Speaker:Um, so it, you know, you can really have fun with the fillings.
Speaker:Uh, but, uh, yeah.
Speaker:What I loved about that was the components of the citrus, the fig, the,
Speaker:the booze can be broken down and kind of put into a scone, which is almost,
Speaker:you know, similar in texture to kind of like a short crust, um, and then kind
Speaker:of, uh, basically deconstructing the components and putting them into a scone.
Speaker:And so as you take a bite, you'll get all those bits and it will evoke that
Speaker:kind of cucciadotti, uh, flavor profile, but in, in a, in a, in a different way.
Speaker:Renato, what's the difference between an American cinnamon
Speaker:roll and a Sicilian sticky bun?
Speaker:Well, sticky buns, they're kind of like a close cousin to the cinnamon roll.
Speaker:I wanted to, I guess, Sicilian ify Um, by adding those kind of, uh, very
Speaker:typical Sicilian flavor profiles.
Speaker:So I, I added a little bit of orange, I added some pistachio,
Speaker:and, uh, I even added a little bit of, um, sumac, which gives it this
Speaker:kind of bright, citrusy flavor.
Speaker:And sumac is, you know, kind of a Middle Eastern spice, um, that, you,
Speaker:found its way to kind of southern Italy as well in certain recipes.
Speaker:So I thought it was a nice kind of mix up.
Speaker:You claim in one of your recipe head notes that you could not stand the
Speaker:flavor of licorice when you were a kid.
Speaker:Me either.
Speaker:But it is a staple in Italian baking, isn't it?
Speaker:And especially in one dessert.
Speaker:Tell me about the Kentucci.
Speaker:Well, the Kentucci are just like a classic biscotti.
Speaker:Um, you know, in Italy, biscotti just is a general term for all kind of like cookie.
Speaker:items.
Speaker:Um, and this cantucci typical of, uh, northern Italy is an almond,
Speaker:uh, infused little biscotti.
Speaker:And you can have it with wine or whatever, but anyway, there's an
Speaker:anise, uh, component to it as well.
Speaker:As a kid, I just could not stand that flavor, but it is a very popular
Speaker:flavor in Italy used in Uh, sweet and savory foods, uh, you know, licorice
Speaker:sticks, amaros, things of that sort.
Speaker:So you, it's, it's pretty prevalent, but the cantucci is, is like
Speaker:a, it's like a great biscotti.
Speaker:And the older I got, the more I learned how to appreciate that flavor.
Speaker:Now, can I eat like black licorice?
Speaker:Absolutely not.
Speaker:But I could definitely have quite a, quite a few, uh, cantucci.
Speaker:Okay, you just talked about cookies and wine in the same sentence.
Speaker:Do you think that's a distinctively Italian thing?
Speaker:You know, yeah, I mean, I do see it a lot in Italy.
Speaker:I've seen it in other countries.
Speaker:I feel like I've seen it in Portugal and I've seen it in France as well.
Speaker:Um, probably in Spain, I would say it's like a Southern Mediterranean
Speaker:thing, but I think the Italians really, it's something they like to do.
Speaker:For sure.
Speaker:Hey, black and white cookies, my favorite ever since I was a
Speaker:kid, may not be all American.
Speaker:But yeah, they're all New York.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So what have you done in your book to infuse them with an Italian flavor?
Speaker:Well, I'm glad that you say it's one of your favorite cookies.
Speaker:It's one of mine as well.
Speaker:I absolutely love a black and white and I will die for a black and white.
Speaker:But um, the, the way we kind of just played with it here.
Speaker:Originally, we had these honey lemon ricotta cookies that we were selling, and
Speaker:they were kind of just simple looking, you know, dome shaped cake like cookies
Speaker:that, um, my, uh, original baker at Chow Gloria, Ginger developed, and they were
Speaker:delicious, but they weren't super popular.
Speaker:They weren't moving quickly.
Speaker:And I was looking at this cookie, and I was like, you know, it kind of looks like
Speaker:a black and white cookie, and it kind of tastes, it has that similar texture.
Speaker:And so I was like, why don't we just, frost the bottom of it with,
Speaker:you know, chocolate and vanilla.
Speaker:And I, I personally am more of a frosting than a glaze when it
Speaker:comes to the black and whites.
Speaker:Like, you know, if you've ever had glazers cookies before they, before they closed
Speaker:down, um, those were one of my favorites.
Speaker:So I was like, let's, let's do a nice little frosting on top of this
Speaker:and see how they move after that.
Speaker:And they, they just exploded as soon as we turned it into a black and white.
Speaker:cookie, but you know, also black and white cookies are, they're more cake, you know,
Speaker:it's, it's, it's definitely like, um, they have that like nice little citrus zing.
Speaker:So this particular cookie lent itself perfectly to becoming a black and white.
Speaker:So that was the ricotta mixed into that dough.
Speaker:Do you find that you use ricotta in a lot of Italian baking?
Speaker:Yes,
Speaker:maybe a little too much.
Speaker:But, um, uh, yeah, I, you know, one of the challenges in writing this
Speaker:book was that, you know, Italians love ricotta, in sweet and savory,
Speaker:um, and they will just lean in.
Speaker:And, uh, I, I actually had to, like, curb the number of recipes that had to, like,
Speaker:that had ricotta or that were deep fried.
Speaker:Um, And, uh, yeah, I love ricotta just as much as the next Italian, but I mean,
Speaker:in the chapter on pies and tarts, you do serve up a truly American
Speaker:classic, the pecan pie, but you're not going to leave it that
Speaker:way.
Speaker:What do you do to it?
Speaker:to make it an Italian aura.
Speaker:I usually, when I bake my pecan pies at home, I would do a
Speaker:chocolate bourbon pecan pie.
Speaker:I love that mix of booze, uh, and chocolate.
Speaker:I know there are some, um, you know, people who want to keep it
Speaker:classic and just have a pecan pie.
Speaker:But, um, I loved swapping out, uh, the, the bourbon with an amaro.
Speaker:And an amaro is, is basically a liqueur that's, uh, an herbaceous
Speaker:liqueur, almost like a digestive.
Speaker:Um, and, uh, I loved that interplay of like swapping out the
Speaker:bourbon and putting in the amaro.
Speaker:It, it gave it like a slightly more sophisticated, uh, flavor profile.
Speaker:And, uh, now it's like, now it's what I do.
Speaker:What would you say to people who tell you, well, I don't really like Amaro's
Speaker:because some people just have this strong reaction to the bitterness.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, I mean, some Amaro's lean themselves more towards the sweet.
Speaker:I mean, you really have to, there are so many different kinds and
Speaker:they'll use everything from, uh, Roots and herbs and citrus and
Speaker:whatnot to kind of create an amaro.
Speaker:Um, and sometimes they're, yeah, sometimes they are super bitter.
Speaker:Sometimes they're like almost syrupy sweet.
Speaker:You just have to find the Amaro.
Speaker:That's right for you.
Speaker:Not everything in your book is sweet and you have recipes for
Speaker:focaccias, for small pizzettis.
Speaker:And something you invented for Chow Gloria in Brooklyn, your caponata bombas.
Speaker:When I first saw the picture, of course, I assumed these looked like
Speaker:deep fried things, and then I read the recipe and saw I was mistaken.
Speaker:So, what is a bombas, and why do you think your customers love them so much?
Speaker:Well, the bombas were something that we created almost out of necessity.
Speaker:We had a lot of caponata left over after an event and we're like, Oh,
Speaker:well, what should we do with these?
Speaker:And one of my, my, my chef, uh, Carly Volterra, who is absolutely incredible.
Speaker:Um, you know, she's also a big caponata fan.
Speaker:We're like, well, you know, why don't we try to kind of, uh,
Speaker:turn these into little pockets.
Speaker:One thing, um, our customers love are savory pastry.
Speaker:So we kind of played around and, and kind of filled them in a
Speaker:pizza like dough or a pizza dough in, in, in the case of the book.
Speaker:And, um, baked them off.
Speaker:We brushed them with some garlic and some parsley and olive
Speaker:oil, and they were a major hit.
Speaker:And I can't speak enough about, um, caponata.
Speaker:I think it's just, it's such an amazing thing, and if you've ever, if you've
Speaker:never had it, it's like an agrodolce, which is like a little sweet and a little
Speaker:savory, um, filled with vegetables, and you can kind of customize it.
Speaker:Again, it's another one of those recipes that every family
Speaker:has their own, their version.
Speaker:They sound perfect, like served with drinks or at a cocktail party.
Speaker:That was the goal.
Speaker:Hey, what's a souple?
Speaker:And am I pronouncing that right?
Speaker:And tell me about your version of it in the book.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So a souple is almost like, if you know what arancini are, um, they're like
Speaker:fried rice balls, uh, in their, Very common, arancini are very common in
Speaker:Sicily and southern Italy and they're kind of, they're either softball
Speaker:sized or they're conical shaped.
Speaker:The supli is Rome's answer to that.
Speaker:Um, again, it's like a fried rice ball.
Speaker:The main difference between an arancini and a rice ball is that, um, the
Speaker:shape mostly, because it looks like a giant, I guess like a pill, and, uh,
Speaker:the rice that's inside is already pre mixed with whatever the filling is,
Speaker:whereas in an arancini the filling is in the middle and the rice remains
Speaker:kind of, uh, saffrony or just plain.
Speaker:Um, but in the book, uh, there's been this kind of new movement in Italy where they
Speaker:are starting to use pasta for the supli.
Speaker:Um, so we did a little riff on that and did a taglioni, taglioni supli with,
Speaker:um, with cheese and mozzarella and dipped it in, uh, an amatriciana sauce,
Speaker:which is a very typical Roman sauce.
Speaker:that is with onions and guanciale and tomato sauce.
Speaker:So it's almost like a deconstructed plate of pasta that's deep fried.
Speaker:Amazing.
Speaker:Growing up in New York, I always had birthday cake from a local Italian bakery.
Speaker:It was light buttery layers filled with decadent cannoli cream
Speaker:covered in tons of whipped cream.
Speaker:Your cannoli cake is an entirely different animal at least from the photo It more
Speaker:resembles a cannoli that it's named after so tell me about your cannoli cake
Speaker:Our cannoli cake was like I wanted to take a slightly different approach.
Speaker:Um, you know at chow We don't have like a deep fryer.
Speaker:So it's like we can't make cannoli or any kind of fried thing in mass
Speaker:so I knew people kept on asking, it's like, oh, why don't you have cannoli?
Speaker:So I was like, why don't I kind of reinterpret this and create a cake?
Speaker:Um, so I wanted to keep it very rustic and simple and do a single
Speaker:layer cake and have the actual cake kind of embody that kind of cannoli,
Speaker:uh, taste, the actual shell taste.
Speaker:So it's a brown sugar buttermilk cake with a little bit of cinnamon and some candied
Speaker:orange and some chocolate chips in it.
Speaker:Very moist, super tender.
Speaker:Um, and then.
Speaker:have that ricotta filling on top, still fold in some more chocolate chips and some
Speaker:pistachios and slicing into that, you're basically getting all the components
Speaker:of a cannoli in a different format.
Speaker:Um, and people, uh, tend to go nuts over it.
Speaker:They really love it.
Speaker:I can't imagine a book called Dolce without gelati recipes and you have four.
Speaker:What makes gelato so different from ice cream?
Speaker:Um, well, you know, gelato is just basically is more milk than cream.
Speaker:It's not as whipped.
Speaker:as ice cream, you know, it's not as churned, so it's a denser consistency and
Speaker:a creamier texture, and then also it's kept at a slightly higher temperature,
Speaker:so when it's less cold, the flavors tend to kind of peak out a little more.
Speaker:I'm a huge gelato fan, I think gelato is I mean, I maybe get hate
Speaker:mail for this, but I think it's a little better than ice cream.
Speaker:Ice cream is great.
Speaker:But you know, if there's a gelato option, I'd probably go in that direction.
Speaker:I want to end with a TikTok challenge.
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:There's a French person TikTok that gets people in the streets and has
Speaker:them choose between different dishes.
Speaker:So we'll do your Italian pastry version.
Speaker:All right, let's do it.
Speaker:Gelato or semifreddo?
Speaker:Uh, gelato.
Speaker:Gelato or biscotti?
Speaker:Uh, gelato.
Speaker:Gelato or pizzele?
Speaker:Gelato.
Speaker:Gelato or zuppa inglese?
Speaker:I'm still going gelato.
Speaker:Gelato or tortoni?
Speaker:Uh, gelato.
Speaker:Gelato or tartufo?
Speaker:Oh no.
Speaker:Um, gelato.
Speaker:Gelato or Amisu?
Speaker:Oh, oh God.
Speaker:Um, gelato.
Speaker:Oh, gelato.
Speaker:Or Alini?
Speaker:Bombolini.
Speaker:Bombolini or cannoli?
Speaker:Alini.
Speaker:You are a Bombolini guy.
Speaker:. Renado.
Speaker:Poto.
Speaker:Thank you so much for sharing your new book with us, Dolce American
Speaker:Baking with an Italian accent.
Speaker:Great.
Speaker:Good luck with the book and we'll see you at Chow Glory in Brooklyn.
Speaker:I can't wait.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:I remember when Renato and his partner opened a bakery in Red Hook, New
Speaker:York, a million years ago, it seems.
Speaker:It was called Baked.
Speaker:Baked.
Speaker:And we drove out, we were living in Manhattan, and we drove out to Red Hook.
Speaker:And this is still when Red Hook was a bombed out disaster area.
Speaker:Literally, empty bombed out lots.
Speaker:And this wonderful bakery.
Speaker:Really high end, beautiful bakery in the middle of, like, dystopia.
Speaker:So it was like something off Adult Swim on Comedy Network.
Speaker:And it was a really great place.
Speaker:We made several trips out there to it.
Speaker:And now it's like, It's nice to see him out on his own.
Speaker:I love that segment of asking him which he prefers of millions of Italian desserts.
Speaker:Uh, that's, uh, if you don't know, that's a riff off a TikTok
Speaker:thing that's currently going on.
Speaker:With French people.
Speaker:Of which do you prefer?
Speaker:Bouffe Brugnon?
Speaker:Coco vin?
Speaker:Coco vin?
Speaker:Steak tartare?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Steak tartare with tartine?
Speaker:That doesn't even make any sense.
Speaker:But okay.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Uh, yes.
Speaker:That's exactly what it's a riff off of.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:That is the interview segment.
Speaker:Just to remind you, we've got a Facebook group, Cooking with Bruce and Mark.
Speaker:You can go there and find recipes from this podcast.
Speaker:You'll be able to find a link for this book if you'd like to pick it
Speaker:up, or you can purchase it there.
Speaker:And in addition to that, we have all kinds of things about
Speaker:cooking and food on the page.
Speaker:Check it out on Facebook under Cooking with Bruce and Mark.
Speaker:Up next, what's making us happy in food?
Speaker:This week,
Speaker:and I'm going to start, I never start, but I get to start.
Speaker:I'm going to start with curried lentils, and, uh, this is a dish that Bruce
Speaker:made a while ago, and he literally went back in the pantry and pulled out
Speaker:all the lentils we had and threw them into a pot and made a curry paste.
Speaker:And it was so delicious.
Speaker:Delicious.
Speaker:It was very good.
Speaker:What lentils were in that?
Speaker:I had chana dal, which are chickpea lentils.
Speaker:I had brown lentils, green lentils and red lentils.
Speaker:I wanted black lentils too, but I had none.
Speaker:Red
Speaker:lentils melt and almost make the sauce, the thickened sauce of it.
Speaker:And the brown lentils stay pretty whole.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And we had mounds of that like polenta on our plate, which I topped with
Speaker:a Grilled chicken breasts, which I marinated in a combination of coconut
Speaker:milk and Thai jarred curry paste.
Speaker:It was so good.
Speaker:Such a great summer dinner.
Speaker:Even though the lentils were warm, it was still a great summer dinner.
Speaker:All right, your turn.
Speaker:What's making me happier?
Speaker:Cannolis.
Speaker:Cannolis.
Speaker:I interviewed Renato, and then I had this craving for cannolis, and
Speaker:Luckily, you know, we live in a part of New England that was very Italian
Speaker:at one point, and there's still a couple of Italian bakeries nearby.
Speaker:Let me
Speaker:say, if you don't know why it was Italian, well, I guess it's why
Speaker:it's Italian, but we live in a part of New England where there were
Speaker:a lot of furniture manufacturers.
Speaker:And back in the day, Italians were known as master carvers and furniture makers.
Speaker:And so these factories brought over tons of Italian immigrants.
Speaker:And with them, tons of Italian restaurants.
Speaker:And we are inundated with really Really good pizza parlors and a couple of
Speaker:good bakeries that are still left.
Speaker:And I just said, you know what?
Speaker:I got off the interview with them.
Speaker:I'm like, I'm going to drive and get me a cannoli.
Speaker:Cannoli.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:All right then.
Speaker:Um, I guess that goes with your beef short ribs from last time.
Speaker:It's all part of your pre cardiologist workup.
Speaker:So that's our podcast for this week.
Speaker:Thanks for being on the show.
Speaker:with us.
Speaker:Thanks for making us a part of your day.
Speaker:We hope that we've made your day better with this podcast and we look forward to
Speaker:seeing you more or at least being with you more on Cooking with Bruce and Mark.
Speaker:And every week we tell you what is making us happy in food.
Speaker:So go to our Facebook group Cooking with Bruce and Mark and there you will
Speaker:find a place to share with us what is making you happy in food this week.
Speaker:We read them all.
Speaker:We comment and if we really like it, we may even try it here on the
Speaker:podcast Cooking with Bruce and Mark.
