WELCOME TO OUR KITCHEN: We're talking about chili sauces and condiments!

Bruce: 00:00:01

hey, I'm Bruce Weinstein and this is the Podcast

2

: 00:00:04

Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

3

: 00:00:05

And

4

: 00:00:05

mark: I'm Mark Skarbrue.

5

: 00:00:05

And together with Bruce, we have written

36 now are writing the 37th cookbook,

6

: 00:00:09

not counting the ones for celebrities.

7

: 00:00:11

Shh, we can't talk about them.

8

: 00:00:13

Confidentiality agreements

won't mention anything about Dr.

9

: 00:00:16

Phil or anything

10

: 00:00:17

Bruce: Or Mike Moreno.

11

: 00:00:18

Oh

12

: 00:00:18

mark: God, no, we're not going to

mention anything about any of those

13

: 00:00:21

people or any other celebrity who

we've written their cookbooks for.

14

: 00:00:25

But we've written 36 now,

37 under our own names.

15

: 00:00:28

And this is our podcast about.

16

: 00:00:30

food and cooking.

17

: 00:00:31

If you know this podcast, you know

that what's coming up first is a one

18

: 00:00:34

minute cooking tip, which is never one

minute long, but it's always longer.

19

: 00:00:37

We're going to talk about various spicy

condiments in this podcast because

20

: 00:00:42

of a listener suggestion on this.

21

: 00:00:44

And we'll tell you what's making

us happy in food this week.

22

: 00:00:47

So let's get started/.

23

: 00:00:53

Bruce: Our one minute cooking tip.

24

: 00:00:54

More about grilling outside.

25

: 00:00:57

Move your food around the grill.

26

: 00:01:00

Why?

27

: 00:01:01

Because if you're like me and most

people, your grill has hot spots, right?

28

: 00:01:06

One spot is hotter than the other.

29

: 00:01:08

And if you put out Four

hamburgers in different spots.

30

: 00:01:11

They're going to cook at

different times and different

31

: 00:01:13

rates get to know your grill.

32

: 00:01:15

You should know by now where the

hot spots are and how it works.

33

: 00:01:19

Learn to work with your grill

so that food cooks evenly.

34

: 00:01:22

mark: Okay.

35

: 00:01:22

And I'm going to add a caveat here.

36

: 00:01:24

When Bruce says, get to know your

grill, he's talking about gas

37

: 00:01:27

grills, because really honestly,

a charcoal grill is funky because

38

: 00:01:31

the hot spots move around depending

on how the charcoal bed is built.

39

: 00:01:34

So it's harder with a charcoal grill.

40

: 00:01:37

You have to pay closer attention to

where the hot and cooler spots are.

41

: 00:01:41

A gas grill is funky and

you do have to get to learn.

42

: 00:01:46

what

43

: 00:01:46

its little quirks are.

44

: 00:01:48

Um, like what's a quirk of your gas grill?

45

: 00:01:50

Bruce: hottest spot of my grill is

in the center towards the back and

46

: 00:01:55

that is because I replaced all my

gas burners this year and I didn't

47

: 00:02:01

use the brand name and I got a

48

: 00:02:04

generic name and so

49

: 00:02:07

they're not quite as easy to use.

50

: 00:02:09

Even as if I had spent the extra 30 and

51

: 00:02:12

mark: a brandy.

52

: 00:02:14

You never tell me this.

53

: 00:02:16

I think we're going to have to

have a marital discussion after

54

: 00:02:18

Bruce: So

55

: 00:02:18

the center back is hotter, which

is actually not bad with us.

56

: 00:02:22

Cause when we make burgers,

I like mine on the well done

57

: 00:02:25

side and Mark likes his rare.

58

: 00:02:27

So mine go into the

59

: 00:02:28

back

60

: 00:02:28

mark: I don't like mine rare.

61

: 00:02:29

Bruce: He likes his so a

good vet could still save it.

62

: 00:02:33

mark: Yeah, rare is an

insult to me, but go on.

63

: 00:02:36

Bruce: So that mine can go in the very

back, and his go right in front of

64

: 00:02:39

mine, and then they cook perfectly.

65

: 00:02:41

mark: Yeah,

66

: 00:02:41

exactly.

67

: 00:02:43

And

68

: 00:02:43

let me say, if you're going to

eat red, rare, blue hamburgers

69

: 00:02:48

as I do, uh, don't use red.

70

: 00:02:50

standard supermarket meat under any

71

: 00:02:52

Bruce: Know where it's coming

72

: 00:02:53

mark: Yeah, we actually buy

from an organic farm and know

73

: 00:02:57

where our ground beef comes

74

: 00:02:58

Bruce: from.

75

: 00:02:58

I know the cows.

76

: 00:02:59

mark: Yes, so, be careful of

eating rare hamburger with meat.

77

: 00:03:04

Okay.

78

: 00:03:04

Before we get to that next listener

suggested segment of this podcast,

79

: 00:03:09

let me say that it would be great.

80

: 00:03:11

If you sign up for our newsletter,

it comes out twice a month.

81

: 00:03:14

You can find that on our website,

cooking person, mark or bruceandmark.

82

: 00:03:17

com either way.

83

: 00:03:18

You can find it there.

84

: 00:03:19

I won't capture your email.

85

: 00:03:21

I won't.

86

: 00:03:22

The provider captured your email and

after you sign up the first couple times

87

: 00:03:26

check your junk or spam boxes because

it Likely ends up there until you begin

88

: 00:03:31

to acknowledge it So just be careful it

ends up in places they like that and I

89

: 00:03:36

can't retrieve your name because of the

way I've locked the accounts, so It's

90

: 00:03:41

for your security, but at the same time

I can't fix it if you're not getting the

91

: 00:03:45

email So sorry about that But so it goes,

so sign up and try to get the email up

92

: 00:03:51

next to our segment on spicy condiments,

a segment suggested by a listener./

93

: 00:04:01

Bruce: So, a listener wrote in,

and she asked us what sriracha was,

94

: 00:04:06

because we talk about it all the time

here on Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

95

: 00:04:09

We talk about lots of chili

sauces, but we mentioned sriracha.

96

: 00:04:12

And so, we're going to give you a little

rundown on, yes, what sriracha is, and

97

: 00:04:17

all the other lovely red, hot, burning

things we put on our food on a regular

98

: 00:04:22

mark: Okay, so while there were many hot

sauces made by indigenous peoples, by

99

: 00:04:28

enslaved peoples on plantations, and even

by local homeowners across the United

100

: 00:04:34

States, across North America, the first

Big commercial success happened about

101

: 00:04:40

150 years ago, and that would be Tabasco

sauce created about 150 years ago with

102

: 00:04:47

much controversy by Edmund McElhinney,

a Maryland born banker who moved to

103

: 00:04:55

Louisiana,

104

: 00:04:56

Bruce: carpetbagger.

105

: 00:04:57

mark: carpetbagger.

106

: 00:04:57

Indeed.

107

: 00:04:58

Bruce: so this, look, we all

know Tabasco sauce, right?

108

: 00:05:01

I mean, I think it's ubiquitous,

it's even in diners, it's

109

: 00:05:05

always little bottles of it.

110

: 00:05:06

mark: I don't think it's that

well known, maybe outside the U.

111

: 00:05:09

S.

112

: 00:05:10

and Canada, but maybe.

113

: 00:05:11

I don't know.

114

: 00:05:12

But go on.

115

: 00:05:12

Yes.

116

: 00:05:13

Bruce: I love about it is the

vinegary ness and the saltiness.

117

: 00:05:17

Yeah.

118

: 00:05:17

And it's not too salty.

119

: 00:05:19

as vinegary as some East Asian

chili sauces, nor is it as hot,

120

: 00:05:24

which is kind of why I like it.

121

: 00:05:25

It's got the perfect amount

of spice for my palate.

122

: 00:05:29

I like it on eggs.

123

: 00:05:31

I love it in Bloody Mary's.

124

: 00:05:33

I've actually Even put a few drops on

each potato chip before I put them in

125

: 00:05:38

mark: mouth.

126

: 00:05:38

Okay, so what happened is that Edmund

McElhinney, he, uh, tasted this sauce,

127

: 00:05:45

a sauce similar to what we now call

Tabasco sauce, at a, and here's where

128

: 00:05:48

it gets controversial, Plantation dinner

in Louisiana, given by Monsal white.

129

: 00:05:54

Some person in the kitchen, undoubtedly

a person of color was making this sauce.

130

: 00:06:02

Later McElhaney claimed to have

discovered the sauce and even.

131

: 00:06:09

Chili's and he bought up land on

Avery Island and claimed that this

132

: 00:06:14

was an indigenous chili to Avery

Island that may or may not be true.

133

: 00:06:21

And now, just so you know, almost

all All the chilies in Tabasco

134

: 00:06:25

sauce come from South America,

Central America, and Africa, not

135

: 00:06:30

from Avery Island in Louisiana.

136

: 00:06:33

This is all problematic because of its

history, but you may have gotten the

137

: 00:06:39

original seeds for the chilies from this

Monsel White who was giving the plantation

138

: 00:06:44

dinner, planted them on Avery Island.

139

: 00:06:47

The sauce is indeed aged

in white oak whiskey

140

: 00:06:50

Bruce: Yeah,

141

: 00:06:50

it is.

142

: 00:06:51

And the original red Tabasco sauce

is my first hot sauce of choice.

143

: 00:06:57

But now when you go to the supermarket,

there are other styles of Tabasco.

144

: 00:07:02

There is a green jalapeno Tabasco.

145

: 00:07:05

There is a chipotle brown Tabasco.

146

: 00:07:08

So they have a variety.

147

: 00:07:10

veered into other directions, and

they have expanded the line away

148

: 00:07:14

from that original red Tabasco.

149

: 00:07:16

mark: Now, Bruce says it's his hot

sauce of choice, but it's not mine.

150

: 00:07:19

Mine is sriracha.

151

: 00:07:20

And we want to talk about sriracha

since it's become such a thing, and

152

: 00:07:23

this is what our listener asked for.

153

: 00:07:25

Sriracha is a hot sauce made of chilies,

vinegar, pickled garlic, sugar, and salt.

154

: 00:07:29

It was first made in the 1940s by a Thai

woman who was riffing off a Cantonese

155

: 00:07:37

sauce made from garlic and chilies And

Cantonese immigrants, of course, from

156

: 00:07:41

China, had settled in Sriracha, Thailand.

157

: 00:07:45

Thus, the current name of the

sauce, Sriracha Sauce, given that.

158

: 00:07:51

Now, it's had a long and storied

history, even long since: 1940

159

: 00:07:56

it was created by this Thai woman,

essentially to appeal to Cantonese

160

: 00:08:00

immigrants in Thailand, right?

161

: 00:08:02

It's had a long history now,

and there are lots of Srirachas

162

: 00:08:06

Bruce: There are, but the most

common that people know in the U.

163

: 00:08:10

S.

164

: 00:08:10

is also called rooster sauce because

it has a rooster on the bottle

165

: 00:08:15

and it is made in California.

166

: 00:08:17

And in fact, there was a whole lawsuit

going on in the towns around this

167

: 00:08:23

factory because people were complaining

about the smell and the burning of

168

: 00:08:27

the eyes and they were trying to

get the plant shut down and moved.

169

: 00:08:30

And it caused a shortage

of this rooster sauce style

170

: 00:08:34

sriracha.

171

: 00:08:35

mark: some evidence to

suggest that shortage may

172

: 00:08:37

have been partly manufactured.

173

: 00:08:38

And they're claiming again that we're

entering into a sriracha shortage, of

174

: 00:08:43

course, to get the price up, I think.

175

: 00:08:45

But anyway, so it goes.

176

: 00:08:47

You should know that the modern sriracha

sauce is made mostly from jalapenos.

177

: 00:08:51

In fact, sometimes almost exclusively,

depending on the brand, of jalapenos.

178

: 00:08:55

So the original chilis used.

179

: 00:08:57

in the Thai Cantonese sauce are gone.

180

: 00:09:01

And here's the thing, sriracha has

become so popular that sriracha is

181

: 00:09:07

now a generic term like Kleenex.

182

: 00:09:10

Um, and So

183

: 00:09:11

Bruce: what kind of sriracha do

184

: 00:09:12

you want?

185

: 00:09:13

Thanks.

186

: 00:09:13

My, I

187

: 00:09:14

love sriracha, but the reason I

like Tabasco better is because

188

: 00:09:19

it's, Tabasco's not as sweet.

189

: 00:09:21

Sriracha does, you said,

does have some sugar

190

: 00:09:23

in

191

: 00:09:23

mark: It does.

192

: 00:09:23

Bruce: And

193

: 00:09:23

sometimes, depending upon

the brand we get, it has a

194

: 00:09:26

little too much garlic for me.

195

: 00:09:28

But the last time Mark and I were in

an Asian supermarket in Providence,

196

: 00:09:32

Rhode Island, we found a sriracha

there made from yellow peppers.

197

: 00:09:37

And that's even sweeter than the one for

198

: 00:09:39

mark: and it's also a little funky.

199

: 00:09:41

Bruce: It is.

200

: 00:09:41

I actually like that one a lot.

201

: 00:09:43

That I've been putting on french

202

: 00:09:44

fries.

203

: 00:09:45

mark: I put sriracha on

avocado toast like crazy.

204

: 00:09:48

I put it on eggs.

205

: 00:09:49

I have bought completely

into this sriracha campaign

206

: 00:09:53

because I really like hot food.

207

: 00:09:54

But again, this is a weird thing

that something has become so

208

: 00:09:57

popular that it became generic.

209

: 00:10:00

It's got branding problems.

210

: 00:10:02

You know, you're so popular.

211

: 00:10:02

Generic.

212

: 00:10:03

Like when I grew up in the

South, we called all carbonated.

213

: 00:10:06

Beverages coke.

214

: 00:10:07

Bruce: That's so weird.

215

: 00:10:08

I,

216

: 00:10:10

question.

217

: 00:10:10

mark: kind of coke do you want?

218

: 00:10:11

And we met dr.

219

: 00:10:12

Pepper orange soda Strawberry soda 7up.

220

: 00:10:17

What kind of coke you want Sprite?

221

: 00:10:19

So

222

: 00:10:21

Bruce: well, at least Sprite

and Coke are made by the same

223

: 00:10:23

company.

224

: 00:10:23

Well,

225

: 00:10:23

mark: I don't know that they were back

then maybe But anyway, we we would

226

: 00:10:31

Bruce: Rondo?

227

: 00:10:32

How about Moxie?

228

: 00:10:34

What about beverages by Hoffman's?

229

: 00:10:36

mark: Oh, I don't know any of this.

230

: 00:10:37

I just know Rhondo a grapefruit

soda made by the Coca-Cola bottling

231

: 00:10:41

Bruce: It can't be as good as Celery soda.

232

: 00:10:44

Made

233

: 00:10:44

by Dr.

234

: 00:10:45

mark: Brown, celery

235

: 00:10:46

Bruce: Sweet celery.

236

: 00:10:48

Eww, the only person who ever

knew like that was my father.

237

: 00:10:51

mark: Oh, well, um, we

shouldn't talk ill of

238

: 00:10:54

Bruce: Park

239

: 00:10:55

mark: I hope he's enjoying Sriracha

wherever, no, I hope he's enjoying

240

: 00:10:59

Selray Soda wherever he is right now.

241

: 00:11:02

Jersey.

242

: 00:11:03

Okay, great, um, I'm sure they

sell it there at the cemetery.

243

: 00:11:06

Uh, okay, so, that's the bit about Wait,

244

: 00:11:09

Bruce: with concession stands.

245

: 00:11:10

That's not theirs.

246

: 00:11:11

A business idea.

247

: 00:11:14

mark: Oh, God.

248

: 00:11:14

And a gift store.

249

: 00:11:15

Wish you were here.

250

: 00:11:17

with

251

: 00:11:17

postcards.

252

: 00:11:18

Okay, so, um, anyway, sorry.

253

: 00:11:20

Uh, let's go on.

254

: 00:11:21

Other hot sauces include Chili Crisp,

and this has become a huge one, and

255

: 00:11:25

I think if you know Chili Crisp,

you know the Lao Gan Ma Spicy Chili

256

: 00:11:30

Crisp.

257

: 00:11:30

Bruce: you know we have

talked about Chili Crisp.

258

: 00:11:33

We've been talking endlessly on Cooking

with Bruce and Mark, we both, Mark and

259

: 00:11:36

I, love Chili Crisp, we've made our

own, we have recipes for Chili Crisp.

260

: 00:11:41

Chili Crisp is another one that

has become a, you know, a generic

261

: 00:11:46

mark: name, right?

262

: 00:11:47

Well, David Chang tried

to trademark Chili Crunch.

263

: 00:11:50

Yes,

264

: 00:11:50

Bruce: he tried to brand it Chili Crunch

because that was the name of his, but

265

: 00:11:54

mark: What a jerk.

266

: 00:11:55

What a total jerk.

267

: 00:11:56

But

268

: 00:11:56

Bruce: Chili Crisp, and then, and here's

how you know it is a generic thing.

269

: 00:12:02

Even Lao Gan Ma, they have their

original traditional Chili crisp.

270

: 00:12:08

They also have about 16 other styles of

chili crisp that they make most of them.

271

: 00:12:13

You cannot get in the US, which is sad

because I would bet they really delicious.

272

: 00:12:19

mark: If you don't know, la gan

ma, it just means old grandmother.

273

: 00:12:22

And

274

: 00:12:22

It started because a woman, Tao

Huabi, I don't know that I'm

275

: 00:12:25

pronouncing her name correctly.

276

: 00:12:27

She owned a shop, and she

started making this condiment.

277

: 00:12:30

And soon enough, bureaucrats and

government officials started showing up

278

: 00:12:34

at her shop just to buy the condiment

to go on noodles or in stir fries.

279

: 00:12:41

And this then became Lao

Gan Ma, spicy chili grits.

280

: 00:12:44

I should tell you that Tao Huabi

eventually ended up Part of that

281

: 00:12:49

billionaire class in China drove around

in limousine Yes was driven around

282

: 00:12:56

So here's the deal about chili crisp.

283

: 00:12:58

It should be slightly funky because

usually it has a fermentation

284

: 00:13:02

element to it of some sort.

285

: 00:13:05

It should also be really crispy with fried

garlic or shallots or ginger or all three.

286

: 00:13:12

It may include fermented black beans.

287

: 00:13:14

In fact, now, right, chili crisp

has become just a generic term.

288

: 00:13:18

Bruce: It is, and some of

them are oilier than others.

289

: 00:13:21

I've bought bottles of chili crisps

where When you first get it and it has

290

: 00:13:25

a chance to settle, half of it is oil

and then the solids are on the bottom.

291

: 00:13:29

Some have more solids than oil.

292

: 00:13:32

I like the ones that are a

little more solid than oil, uh,

293

: 00:13:36

because I make my own chili oil

294

: 00:13:37

mark: because it's so versatile and, you

know, what we need is something crispy.

295

: 00:13:42

Fried garlic, shallots, ginger, whatever.

296

: 00:13:44

We need something crispy in there.

297

: 00:13:45

We need lots of chilies.

298

: 00:13:47

Chili Crisp.

299

: 00:13:48

And then It becomes the sky's the limit.

300

: 00:13:50

And in fact, for the book that we've

been working on, Bruce has made a chili

301

: 00:13:54

crisp with nori, the dried seaweed

sheets, nori and those wasabi peas

302

: 00:14:03

that you get, right, that are snacks.

303

: 00:14:05

And that's all ground

together in the chili crisp.

304

: 00:14:08

I love, it's got a fishy

funkiness to it that I absolutely

305

: 00:14:12

Bruce: The nori doesn't

stay crispy, of course.

306

: 00:14:14

It softens up.

307

: 00:14:15

That's what gives it the

seafood y, ocean fishiness.

308

: 00:14:18

The wasabi peas stay crunchy even

after they're finally ground.

309

: 00:14:22

And it gives a nose spanking

bit of wasabi hit to it.

310

: 00:14:28

It is one of my favorite new chili

311

: 00:14:29

crisps.

312

: 00:14:30

Let's

313

: 00:14:30

mark: talk about other things.

314

: 00:14:31

Okay, salsa macha.

315

: 00:14:32

There's a big one.

316

: 00:14:33

It's originally a sauce from

Veracruz, Mexico, but no longer such.

317

: 00:14:38

It's a chili paste, right?

318

: 00:14:39

Bruce: It is a chili paste, and the

319

: 00:14:41

difference Or maybe

320

: 00:14:41

mark: a sauce, it depends

on how loose and oily you

321

: 00:14:43

Bruce: Yeah, it tends to be fairly

crunchy, like a chili crisp.

322

: 00:14:47

There's a very different technique,

though, and that's what I really find

323

: 00:14:50

interesting about the two of them.

324

: 00:14:51

The way you make any kinds of chili

crisp are you take the ingredients that

325

: 00:14:55

are going to go in it in a bowl, and

you pour the super heated oil over it.

326

: 00:14:59

Over and

327

: 00:15:00

mark: let it infuse that

328

: 00:15:01

way.

329

: 00:15:02

Lots of sizzling and popping.

330

: 00:15:03

Bruce: and when you make a traditional

salsa matcha, what you do is fry

331

: 00:15:08

your chili pieces in big chunks in

oil, and then you fry all the other

332

: 00:15:13

ingredients, usually some kind of

nut, sometimes some dried fruit.

333

: 00:15:17

You fry them, then You let it

cool a bit, and you put all

334

: 00:15:22

of that in a food processor.

335

: 00:15:23

Now, I suppose originally it would

have been a mortar and pestle,

336

: 00:15:25

so we had to pound it by hand.

337

: 00:15:27

But then we put all that cooled,

fried ingredients and the oil in

338

: 00:15:32

a food processor and pulsed it.

339

: 00:15:34

And here's where the variations come.

340

: 00:15:36

Do you like it?

341

: 00:15:36

Really?

342

: 00:15:37

Really?

343

: 00:15:37

Do you like it smooth, do you pulse it a

lot, or do you like it chunky, like we do?

344

: 00:15:41

, I only like super chunky peanut

butter, so it's kind of the

345

: 00:15:43

same thing with my salsa macha.

346

: 00:15:44

mark: And again, salsa macha has

become so widely, uh, categorized,

347

: 00:15:50

I mean, such a big category of food,

that in the recipes we've been working

348

: 00:15:54

on, Bruce has been making salsa

machas with pecans, with olives.

349

: 00:15:57

almonds with hazelnuts.

350

: 00:15:59

Bruce: I did one with

Coconut and dried pineapple.

351

: 00:16:02

I mean, that is so not

352

: 00:16:04

authentic in any way, shape or

form, but boy, is it delicious.

353

: 00:16:07

.

mark: But it's a technique of how to make a salsa matcha.

354

: 00:16:09

So let's move on to Harissa, which is a

northwest african chili paste or sauce.

355

: 00:16:13

Again, paste or sauce,

depending on how loose it is.

356

: 00:16:16

You probably know Arisa from little jars.

357

: 00:16:19

You may have seen it in the supermarket.

358

: 00:16:20

Sometimes it got oil floating on the top,

359

: 00:16:23

Bruce: Most of the harissa

that you can buy in the U.

360

: 00:16:26

S.

361

: 00:16:27

, in jars, was made from dried chilies.

362

: 00:16:29

There was a recipe that I found years

ago that called for rose harissa, and it

363

: 00:16:35

was a

364

: 00:16:35

harissa that had dried rose petals in it,

and I have tried to recreate something

365

: 00:16:40

like it, and actually, I did, and it

will be in that new book we talked

366

: 00:16:43

about, and the technique here is, again,

a little different from the others.

367

: 00:16:47

You end up making this paste of the

dried and reconstituted chilies and all

368

: 00:16:54

your Flowers or other herbs, and then

you fry that in a skillet in the oil.

369

: 00:16:59

So once again, you have similar

ingredients, a completely different

370

: 00:17:02

technique, but a delicious,

371

: 00:17:04

mark: Yeah, and just like Sriracha,

just like Chili Crisp, just like

372

: 00:17:07

Salsa Macha, harissa has become

a category rather than a thing.

373

: 00:17:10

Now, some people will claim

authenticity here, but we're

374

: 00:17:13

actually talking about a category.

375

: 00:17:14

For example, many Libyan chefs

from Libya, Libyan chefs.

376

: 00:17:19

Add caraway, cumin and lemon juice

to her Risa, which, for example, many

377

: 00:17:24

Palestinian or Jordanian or Tunisian

chefs or Israeli chefs would freak out

378

: 00:17:29

at the addition

379

: 00:17:30

of caraway, cumin and lemon

380

: 00:17:32

Bruce: but they might add sumac or

they might add some other spice that's

381

: 00:17:36

more common in that part of the world.

382

: 00:17:38

Right.

383

: 00:17:38

mark: So, moving on to another hot

sauce that you may know is Peri Peri

384

: 00:17:42

or Piri Piri, depending on how you

actually deal with the original language.

385

: 00:17:47

Piri sauce.

386

: 00:17:48

And this is a sauce made from Portuguese

immigrants in Mozambique, but it has

387

: 00:17:52

now shot across all of the southern

bits of the African continent.

388

: 00:17:58

And, you know, um, it's

a, it is its own category.

389

: 00:18:02

Bruce: Well, there is a piri

piri chili, isn't there?

390

: 00:18:05

Yes.

391

: 00:18:05

Yeah, and that's what this sauce was

originally made from, which is why

392

: 00:18:09

it's called Piri Piri sauce . And the

technique has become sort of the way the

393

: 00:18:14

sauce has now formed its own category,

but it is a fermented chili and there's

394

: 00:18:21

always salt, there's always oil.

395

: 00:18:23

It has to have some kind of acid.

396

: 00:18:26

I like to use lemon juice.

397

: 00:18:27

You could use vinegar if you want.

398

: 00:18:30

Garlic is a must.

399

: 00:18:32

Or not.

400

: 00:18:33

mark: know, we had a

401

: 00:18:34

Bruce: episode on

402

: 00:18:34

authenticity,

403

: 00:18:36

and so let's say garlic is optional.

404

: 00:18:38

mark: Right?

405

: 00:18:39

And there are so many

variations now of peri peri.

406

: 00:18:42

Some use orange juice,

some include lemon peel.

407

: 00:18:46

There's even variations with whiskey,

basil, tarragon, and bay leaves.

408

: 00:18:50

I mean, many different ways to

make this incredibly fiery sauce.

409

: 00:18:54

I think the one thing they all have

in common is how It's unbelievably hot

410

: 00:18:59

Bruce: there, and

411

: 00:19:01

mark: you should know that a lot of

the peri peri or peri peri bottled in

412

: 00:19:05

North America and in the EU is actually

made from bird's eye chilies, not the

413

: 00:19:13

original chili that the Portuguese

immigrants allegedly originally used

414

: 00:19:17

to make the sauce in Mozambique.

415

: 00:19:19

Bruce: And I have found a jarred peri

peri that's a little darker in color.

416

: 00:19:23

I don't remember the brand name.

417

: 00:19:24

We finished it.

418

: 00:19:25

I put it on hamburgers.

419

: 00:19:27

I looked at the ingredient list

and there were raisins in it.

420

: 00:19:29

And I actually thought that was brilliant

because in my opinion, the sweet, even

421

: 00:19:35

fermenty flavor of raisins balanced

the hot chilies and it was my favorite.

422

: 00:19:40

mark: Okay.

423

: 00:19:40

And one more category of hot sauce.

424

: 00:19:42

There are many beyond

what we're talking about.

425

: 00:19:44

Korean versions.

426

: 00:19:46

It's Chinese versions and many, many more.

427

: 00:19:48

But one that we particularly like

is shacha, which is a Middle Eastern

428

: 00:19:52

sauce made from fermented chilies.

429

: 00:19:56

Bruce: Yeah.

430

: 00:19:56

So to ferment chilies, you slice them, you

toss them in salt and you set them aside.

431

: 00:20:01

Now Mark's and my preferred method

of doing any kind of fermenting like

432

: 00:20:06

that at home is in the refrigerator.

433

: 00:20:08

It takes longer.

434

: 00:20:09

It's not going to ferment

in four or five days.

435

: 00:20:11

It may take two or three.

436

: 00:20:12

Two weeks, but it will happen, and

you end up with a little safer product

437

: 00:20:17

to eat rather than fermenting at room

438

: 00:20:19

mark: Don't write in.

439

: 00:20:20

If you ferment at room temperature,

440

: 00:20:22

Bruce: that's good for you.

441

: 00:20:22

That's wonderful.

442

: 00:20:24

I'm proud of you, but I like

to do it in the refrigerator,

443

: 00:20:27

mark: right?

444

: 00:20:27

Exactly the same.

445

: 00:20:28

We make kimchi in the fridge, too.

446

: 00:20:30

And

447

: 00:20:30

Bruce: it sours.

448

: 00:20:31

Beautifully.

449

: 00:20:32

mark: it just takes longer.

450

: 00:20:33

It takes two weeks rather

than four or five days.

451

: 00:20:37

It takes longer to get to

a sour point, but it will

452

: 00:20:40

Bruce: doesn't stink up your

453

: 00:20:41

mark: You know, somebody we had

some people over for dinner.

454

: 00:20:45

Uh, Koreans live in the United States.

455

: 00:20:48

The last week or week

before last, whatever.

456

: 00:20:51

And they were telling us, Bruce was

serving his homemade kimchi, and they

457

: 00:20:54

were telling us that some Koreans have

a special refrigerator just for kimchi

458

: 00:20:58

because it stinks everything up so bad.

459

: 00:21:01

That cracked me up.

460

: 00:21:02

Bruce: Yeah, my friend Faye says

she's been banned from making

461

: 00:21:05

it

462

: 00:21:05

in her kitchen.

463

: 00:21:06

Her husband makes her

put it in the garage.

464

: 00:21:08

I'm like, okay, that'll attract the

465

: 00:21:10

mark: Exactly.

466

: 00:21:10

Anyway, shut that is a really

great fermented funky sauce.

467

: 00:21:15

Relatively new to us, but another of

these many chili condiments, more and

468

: 00:21:21

more coming online every day because

more and more people are starting small

469

: 00:21:26

food businesses in which they are riffing

off these kind of condiments, creating

470

: 00:21:31

them, creating their own special recipes

for them, all extremely fascinating.

471

: 00:21:35

Bruce: If you're invited to someone's

house for dinner, consider bringing a

472

: 00:21:38

jar or two of Tabasco, or Piri Piri, or

a salsa matcha, or a chili, because you

473

: 00:21:44

could make your own, or you could buy it.

474

: 00:21:46

It's so different, and it's so much

nicer than just a bottle of wine.

475

: 00:21:50

And besides, my feeling about wine when

you go to someone's house for dinner

476

: 00:21:53

is Your hosts probably have already

chosen wine to go with the food and

477

: 00:21:57

then they're stuck with this decision.

478

: 00:21:59

Do I have to serve what you brought?

479

: 00:22:01

mark: going to stop you right here.

480

: 00:22:02

You're talking about us.

481

: 00:22:04

That's us.

482

: 00:22:05

We choose wine.

483

: 00:22:05

I don't know that everybody chooses

the wine to go with their dinner.

484

: 00:22:10

Bruce: Well, some of our friends do too.

485

: 00:22:12

mark: Okay.

486

: 00:22:13

I'm not saying that no one does.

487

: 00:22:16

So, now you're in the

middle of our marriage.

488

: 00:22:18

So, I said something and Bruce took it

to the absolute opposite other side.

489

: 00:22:22

I didn't say no one picked the wines.

490

: 00:22:24

I said many people don't probably

491

: 00:22:27

Bruce: So it's nicer than

bringing flowers, how's that?

492

: 00:22:30

mark: And

493

: 00:22:30

Bruce: Now

494

: 00:22:31

we're gonna go into what

you hate about flowers.

495

: 00:22:32

Now we're

496

: 00:22:32

mark: And now we're gonna

go into our relationship.

497

: 00:22:34

I hate flowers as a house gift.

498

: 00:22:35

I absolutely hate them.

499

: 00:22:36

It's one thing if you send flowers

ahead in a vase, but I hate showing

500

: 00:22:40

up at my door with flowers when you

show up at my door with flowers.

501

: 00:22:43

I'm sorry if you do.

502

: 00:22:44

Ugh.

503

: 00:22:44

I'm sorry.

504

: 00:22:45

I know I appreciate the gesture, but

at the same time I hate it because,

505

: 00:22:48

you know, I'm, I'm greeting guests, I'm

holding the dog, I'm letting people in,

506

: 00:22:52

Bruce is starting to make cocktails,

and I gotta now deal with these stupid

507

: 00:22:55

flowers, I gotta cut them off and get

them in a vase and all that, and I

508

: 00:22:57

know that sounds incredibly petulant

and childish of me, but it's just one

509

: 00:23:02

of those things that I'm like, why did

you give me something that made me do

510

: 00:23:06

something when you walked in my door?

511

: 00:23:09

Why can't you just hand me

something that I can put on

512

: 00:23:12

the counter and go, oh, thanks.

513

: 00:23:15

Yeah, exactly.

514

: 00:23:16

So, it's my pet peeve

about flowers, sorry.

515

: 00:23:18

It's so weirdly petulant.

516

: 00:23:21

Now that it's out of my mouth and in

the open air, I now despise myself.

517

: 00:23:25

So, okay, I'm gonna have to get over

this and get over the flower thing

518

: 00:23:28

and accept flowers when people bring

them to my house and not be upset.

519

: 00:23:32

Okay.

520

: 00:23:33

Well, that's this segment of the podcast.

521

: 00:23:35

I don't know.

522

: 00:23:35

We went from chili sauces to flowers.

523

: 00:23:37

Uh, but, uh, before we get to the

end, what's making us happy in

524

: 00:23:40

food this week, let me say that it

would be great if you could rate or

525

: 00:23:43

subscribe to this podcast, and even

give it a review like nice podcast

526

: 00:23:48

that helps us out in the analytics.

527

: 00:23:49

I know it's not your problem,

but we are an unsupported podcast

528

: 00:23:53

and we can't even do that.

529

: 00:23:53

use your support.

530

: 00:23:54

Okay, up next, the

traditional final segment.

531

: 00:23:58

What's making us happy

and food this week?/

532

: 00:24:02

Bruce: Tinned, Smoked,

mackerel, and chili sauce.

533

: 00:24:05

mark: We are the tinned fish king.

534

: 00:24:07

Bruce: I am the tinned fish king.

535

: 00:24:09

And I also like to shop at World

Market, one of those places, like home

536

: 00:24:14

goods, that Mark can't stand going

537

: 00:24:16

mark: into because

538

: 00:24:17

Bruce: makes him crazy.

539

: 00:24:18

I can't.

540

: 00:24:19

But World Market And like Home

Goods, always has a food section.

541

: 00:24:24

And last week when I was in World

Market, they had a whole shelf of Fish

542

: 00:24:29

Wife tinned mackerel with chili sauce.

543

: 00:24:33

And if you know anything about fish,

you know that Fish Wife is really

544

: 00:24:37

delicious and really excellent.

545

: 00:24:39

And it was like, Half the price

of where it's ever been before.

546

: 00:24:43

So I just bought them all.

547

: 00:24:44

I bought the whole shelf.

548

: 00:24:44

So we have a lot of tin smoked mackerel

with chili sauce in our pantry.

549

: 00:24:49

mark: So what's making me happy

and food is because something

550

: 00:24:50

that may surprise you, but it is.

551

: 00:24:53

And we recently had a dinner

party and Bruce made goat

552

: 00:24:58

birria and it was so delicious.

553

: 00:25:00

So tell, tell them what you

did to make goat birria.

554

: 00:25:03

Bruce: Well, I rubbed the birria.

555

: 00:25:05

the goat with a chili paste that

I made from dried reconstituted,

556

: 00:25:10

uh, chilies and garlic and

oregano and ground up bay leaves.

557

: 00:25:15

And

558

: 00:25:16

mark: What, what, what's the cut of goat?

559

: 00:25:17

Bruce: Oh, I used leg for this.

560

: 00:25:19

And then on the way I made it, cause of

course we're not going to be authentic

561

: 00:25:23

and we've had episodes on authenticity.

562

: 00:25:25

So my version of this is I.

563

: 00:25:28

I put lime slices and orange slices

at the bottom of a big roasting

564

: 00:25:32

pan along with onion slices.

565

: 00:25:35

And that gives me that sort of sour

orange kind of thing that goes on.

566

: 00:25:39

And I put the , chili

rubbed goat on top of that.

567

: 00:25:43

covered it and I shoved it out

on the grill to roast it all day

568

: 00:25:47

and I served it in bowls with some

gnocchi made with masa harina.

569

: 00:25:52

mark: That crazy, crazy dish.

570

: 00:25:54

And it was part of being creative.

571

: 00:25:57

Bruce is being creative with food,

and part of what we love when we cook

572

: 00:26:01

is how to be incredibly open artfully

/Okay, that's the podcast for this week.

573

: 00:26:06

Thanks for joining us.

574

: 00:26:07

We appreciate your time with us.

575

: 00:26:09

We appreciate that you've

chosen to listen to this podcast

576

: 00:26:12

out of all the podcasts out.

577

: 00:26:15

Bruce: I'm

578

: 00:26:15

mark: laughing because there's a great

Martin Short interview in which he

579

: 00:26:19

plays his character, Jiminy Glick.

580

: 00:26:21

If you don't know Jiminy Glick,

you have to go look him up online.

581

: 00:26:24

It is one of the funniest things.

582

: 00:26:25

He's this incredibly overweight

interviewer full of his own self

583

: 00:26:30

importance, who hates every celebrity

he interviews, and Sean Hayes asks

584

: 00:26:34

Jiminy Glick, Martin Short, if he's

ever done a podcast and Martin Short's

585

: 00:26:38

like, no, I've never been that broke.

586

: 00:26:40

So, um,

587

: 00:26:42

Bruce: So

588

: 00:26:43

mark: this is our unsupported podcast and

thanks for being a part of it with us.

589

: 00:26:46

Bruce: Every week we tell you

what's making us happy in food,

590

: 00:26:49

so tell us what's making you happy

in food this week on our Facebook

591

: 00:26:53

group, Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

592

: 00:26:55

If it's really fun and exciting,

we might make it and talk about it

593

: 00:26:58

here on Cooking with Bruce and Mark.