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Episode 80

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Published on:

19th May 2025

WELCOME TO OUR KITCHEN: We're talking about Korean food!

Do you have a favorite Korean restaurant? Or a favorite dish? Or a favorite ingredient? We do! To all!

We're Bruce Weinstein & Mark Scarbrough, authors of thirty-six cookbooks, plus one forthcoming this summer: COLD CANNING. You can click that link to order your copy. Learn how to preserve the seasons in small batches without any pressure or steam canning.

We've also got a one-minute cooking tip about chopsticks. And we'll tell you what's making us what's happy in food this week: crab apple cider and a lemon tart.

Here are the segments for this episode of COOKING WITH BRUCE & MARK:

[00:46] Our one-minute cooking tip: chopstick etiquette.

[04:11] What do two North American guys know about Korean food? We'll take you on our journey of discovery for Korean fare.

[30:33] What’s making us happy in food this week: crab apple cider and a lemon tart.

Transcript
Mark:

Hey, I am Bruce Weinstein and this is the Podcast

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Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

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And I'm Mark Scarborough, and together

with Bruce, my husband, we have written

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three dozen cookbooks plus a couple

knitting books plus a memoir for me.

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We've written, I don't know, quite

a few books plus some work for

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hire books for celebrities, which

we can't really talk about Dr.

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Phil, but can't really

talk about too much.

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But this is the podcast that explores

our food and cooking passion,

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the main passions of our life.

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We've got a one minute

cooking tip about Korean food.

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We wanna explore our journey to

discover Korean food, to help you

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perhaps find a discovery route to

Korean food, and we'll tell you what's

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making us happy in food this week.

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So let's get started.

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Our one minute cooking tip

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Bruce: here is some

chopstick etiquette fuel.

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Oh wow.

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You have to know this.

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Mark: I got one already.

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You gotta have to know this.

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No, I'm going first, Wayne.

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Alright.

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You go first.

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No, I'm saying it right up.

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Do not ever let your

chopsticks touch the table.

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Okay.

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The tips of your chopsticks

that you use to pick up food

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should never touch the table.

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You should.

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If it comes in a little paper wrapper,

fold that up to make a little stand for

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your chopsticks or rest them on the bowl.

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Do not let the part of the chopsticks

that touch food, touch the table.

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It's

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Bruce: a whole bunch of nevers.

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Here's the thing about

chopstick etiquette.

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Mark says, never touch the table.

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Never.

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Pick up food off the main

platter with your chopsticks.

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Eat it.

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No.

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Nope.

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No.

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Use a serving spoon to get it or

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Mark: serving chopsticks

to get it to your plate.

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If you go to a really fancy

place, or perhaps someone's home,

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they may have serving chopstick,

these giant, giant chopsticks.

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Mm-hmm.

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Mm-hmm.

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They're used to, they're

used in a wok as you cook.

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Bruce: Never share your food by

giving chopstick to chopstick.

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Right.

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So I'm not gonna pass you a piece of

meat for my chopstick, your chops.

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I'm not sure.

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I give, I'm

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Mark: deft enough with chopsticks

to pull that off, but Okay.

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It's rude.

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Bruce: Don't stab your

food with the chopsticks.

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Oh, no, no, no, no.

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Don't point with your chopsticks

and the most important one.

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No, do not lick.

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Or suck your chopsticks.

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Mark: Yes.

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All of those are really important to

know about chopsticks, and let's just

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also say while we're sitting here about

chopstick etiquette, especially if you

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live in North America or the uk, let's

just say we're Australia or any place like

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that, it's okay to ask for a fork spoon.

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No, absolutely.

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It is not.

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Uh, what do I wanna say?

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It's not, uh, anything to be ashamed of.

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My mom, for example, could never mm-hmm.

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Get the hang of chopsticks.

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Mm-hmm.

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My dad actually got the hang

of chopsticks, but my mom

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could never figure it out.

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And you know what?

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It's okay.

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And don't forget that there

are some cultures like.

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Thai and Thai food, where in

fact chopsticks are served

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in North America and the uk.

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That would not appear on

a tie table in Thailand.

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And why

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Mark (2): is that?

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Mark: Well, it's this

whole Asian racism thing.

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Mm-hmm.

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That somehow all Asians use chopsticks

is not necessarily the case.

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Bruce: No.

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And in some parts of

Asia it is the western.

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Cutlery that is used

because unfortunately.

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Co.

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Western colonization

has happened, so, right,

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Mark: right.

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Yep.

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So we're gonna come outta this

and talk about our exploration of

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Korean food in the hopes that we can

inspire you to try some Korean food.

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But before we get to that, let me

say that we have a TikTok channel.

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We have an Instagram reels

channel, and we have a Facebook

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channel, and all of them are named.

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Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

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Mm-hmm.

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The TikTok channel is the

big one of all of them.

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If you're on TikTok, check us out.

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We've got all kinds of videos, cooking,

tasting, doing all kinds of crazy stuff.

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We're really silly in those

videos and, um, it's okay.

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That's how it's supposed to be on TikTok.

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If you're gonna compete with a 20

year olds, then you have to be silly.

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I always say this, if you as

a 65-year-old man is going to.

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Compete with the shirtless

20-year-old boys.

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You gotta, in fact be silly.

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So if, because I ain't going shirtless.

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No, certainly not.

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That would lose followers.

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So, um, check us out on any of those

places for cooking videos and videos about

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us and writing cookbooks and our likes

and dislikes and all that kind of stuff.

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Okay?

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So let's talk about Korean food and a

way to in fact, discover it and in fact

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make it part of your culinary experience.

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Bruce: Okay, so what do two white

guys know about Korean food?

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I mean, seriously, I have to, I,

we have to start there, right?

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Neither of us are Korean.

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No.

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Neither of us speak Korean or

pronounce it well, so there's gonna

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be lots of mispronunciations going on.

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It's just something we both

love, but not something.

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Either of us grew up with

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Mark: no.

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In fact, let me say that I can

start this journey by saying,

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in college, I'm at Baylor.

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I am taking my final science course before

I go off and take all my English courses

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and my German courses for my majors and

I, I'm in my last, uh, science course,

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it's physics and my lab partner is Korean.

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And she doesn't speak English very

well, so I help her a lot with

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our labs and we work together.

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I mean, I didn't do her labs for her,

but I helped her a lot and in exchange

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for helping her understand what was going

on in physics lab, she started taking

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me to Korean restaurants and there was.

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One, I forgot to

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Bruce: say this is Waco,

Texas in the seventies.

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That was one Korean

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Mark: restaurant in the

late seventies in Waco.

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And we went there and of course

she was very familiar with this

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restaurant and knew the people that

owned it and all that kinda stuff.

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But then we actually drove twice to

Austin and went to Korean restaurants

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in Austin, and I learned about.

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Korean food, and I was

undone with it as a kid.

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I loved kid, college student.

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I You were a kid.

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You went to college as a 16-year-old.

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I was.

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I lied.

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You did.

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But I love bras.

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I love really big, deep flavors.

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I like bold combinations of flavors.

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And when I discovered this Korean

food, I, I was scared of kimchi because

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I'd heard all these horror stories

about it, burning people's faces off.

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That's so not true.

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I, I had heard all these

horror stories about a hot.

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Korean food is, that's so not true.

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Bruce: Well, it's not a subtle cuisine.

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No, it's not.

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I'll say that.

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It's not a subtle cuisine.

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I'm

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Mark: not a subtle eater, so

I am not the, uh, incredibly

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subtle Japanese connoisseur.

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Mm-hmm.

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I am in favor of giant, bold flavors.

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Well, that's, Bruce knows I want a.

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Dirty, funky red wine than a light

sophisticated, delicate white wine.

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Mm-hmm.

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That's just me.

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And so Korean flavor profiles and Korean

taste it for my uneducated palette.

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As a senior or junior in

college, I guess a junior I was.

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Absolutely undone with it

and her taking me there.

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And I came back to Dallas after

college and after traveling around

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a bit, I came back to Dallas and I

tried to get other people interested

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in Korean food and I could get no

one to go to Korean restaurants.

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It's

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Bruce: a hard sell.

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People are so familiar with

Chinese food in the US Right.

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And especially in the seventies.

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Right.

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You can go to Chinatowns.

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So now we're in most big

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Mark: cities.

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Yeah.

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Now we're talking like the late eighties

and I'm outta college and I can't get.

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Anybody interested in any of

the Korean food in Dallas?

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Bruce: It was really a hard sell.

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I, to be honest, I grew up with lots

and lots and lots of Chinese food, and

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I did not know what Korean food was

at all until my mid thirties and New

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York City has a big China town at this

point, but it also had a big Korea

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town, but it also had a big Korea town.

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It was 32nd Street, like for two

avenues long was Korean restaurant

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after Korean restaurant and.

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I had lived there my whole life

and didn't know about this.

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So that's how sort of

quiet this was being kept.

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Mark: Well, at least quiet for you.

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I mean.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I think this has something to do

and I'm gonna say something horrible,

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but I, I think this stuff has something

to do with the Jews and Chinese food.

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I think that there's a way

that there's this myopia that

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sets in with Chinese food.

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Mm-hmm.

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In the culture that you came from.

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Yeah.

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Because it's what you eat on

Christmas, yada yada yada.

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You

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Bruce: eat on

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Mark: what?

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Eat.

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Nobody eats, nobody eats

Chinese food on Chavez.

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But okay.

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Um, I think there is this myopia

that says, and so what happened is

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I moved in with Bruce and in the mid

:

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to Korean food, but can't find no one

to go to Korean restaurants with me.

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And we together found a.

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Place in Midtown?

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Yes, Manhattan called

Hung, and it was a vegan

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Bruce: Korean restaurant.

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And I will say the vegan

part actually put me off.

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You did?

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Because I was like, oh, I'm a carnivore.

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I've always been a carnivore

is birth and we're so okay.

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We go to this, hung this, this place.

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And it was so cliched.

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You take your shoes off, of course you do.

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They offer you kimono style

jackets They do to put on,

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they do you sit on the floor?

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They You do.

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And not even with a well

to put your feet in.

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Nope.

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You sit on the floor.

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Yep.

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And we ordered things like

grilled burdock root and, which

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was one of my favorite things.

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Of course, it's the closest

thing to a meat texture.

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And they had, but there were

much more subtle flavors.

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And I, there was this pumpkin soup.

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Yeah, the pumpkin soup, which

was so simple and beautiful.

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So I have this.

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Theory now about Korean

food, and that is vegan.

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Korean food is much more subtle

than non-vegan Korean food.

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Such

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Mark: an esoteric subcategory

of vegan Korean food.

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Well, there

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Bruce: is, there was a book that came

out a few years ago called Temple

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Food and it was written by a woman

who cooks in one of these, , Korean

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monasteries and she makes vegan food

for all the people who live there.

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You should make me more of that and.

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I had a copy of that book and quite

honestly, I found every recipe

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to be so bland and so boring.

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No.

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That I never made anything out of it.

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Okay.

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Mark: That goes against my big

flavors, and I don't remember.

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We remember hung different.

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It's still in Manhattan.

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Yeah.

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And we remember it differently

because I don't remember the flavors.

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It's all that subtle.

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I just remember it as all incredibly new.

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It

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Bruce: was new for us.

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Mark: And we took your

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Bruce: parents

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Mark: there,

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Bruce: which was We did.

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They were, I mean, I don't

think they would've ever

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gone there except that I was.

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Included in this.

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I think if you tried to take them,

they would've been like, no, no, no.

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I don't So think they

were afraid to tell me No,

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Mark: no, no, no.

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I, I dragged my parents to

all kinds of weird places.

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And, uh, not that Korean vegan food

is weird, but for them it was weird.

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And that was

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Bruce: the place your dad was

able to figure out chopsticks.

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It was.

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Your mom could not,

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Mark: it was the place Dad

figured out chopsticks and.

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My parents actually talked

about that place for years

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afterwards about going to lunch.

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There it was, and of course

it was a nice long lunch.

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It was really beautiful and a

nice, so again, we're slowly

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making our way toward Korean food.

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We're experimenting.

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I've been there at college.

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We're going to a vegan place.

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And then our editor at the time,

our book editor, at a one moment in

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our life told us about this, be b.

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Restaurant.

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Mm-hmm.

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That was in a really weird location

and he's like, oh, you have to go here.

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So we did.

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It was the East

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Bruce: Village and it was

behind another noodle shop.

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So you walked into a noodle shop.

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Yep.

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But then you had to go through a

back door behind the dining room.

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Yeah, literally through, through the

kitchen and out a back door to get

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into the second hidden restaurant.

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And I didn't know what Biba was.

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And if you don't know what it is,

it's a rice dish and most often

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the rice is hot and it's served

in a hot, hot, hot stone bowl.

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Yeah, I know.

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I see.

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Mark: Uh, at this point I'm obsessed

with Korean food, so I see these

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Korean videos on TikTok and Instagram

reels, and they put those stone balls

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right on the burners on the stove.

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So when

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Bruce: the rice goes in, it gets.

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Crispy on the bottom, you get

that beautiful browned crust.

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And then on the top, oh, I love it.

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You put all sorts of fresh vegetables,

fermented vegetables, oh my gosh,

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of sometimes some seasoned meat,

sometimes an egg raw or fried.

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So if

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Mark: you know about that, like soer at

the bit of paella where the rice burns on

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the bottom and people think this is very.

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Ta.

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I think it's very tasty and PE many people

think this is a very tasty part of Haya.

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This is a kind of paella rice on steroids.

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Yep.

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'cause it's really crunchy on the

bottom and it's really delicious.

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Bruce: It was about, oh, I, maybe the 10th

or 12th time I had it before, I realized

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after seeing enough videos online that the

proper way to eat it is to mix it all up.

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Yeah.

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And that is actually a very traditional

way of eating a lot of these.

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Korean dishes we're gonna talk

about is to mix it all up.

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And I was eating it from the top down.

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And that's not really the traditional way.

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No, no, no, no, no.

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A lot of Korean food.

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Mark: No, no, no.

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You, you mash it all up.

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You mash it all together.

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And that's another reason I

like Korean cuisine so much.

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And then of course we moved from

there from that experience too,

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I think what is a lot of people's

entree point in North America and

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the UK and Australia to Korean food.

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And that is Korean barbecue.

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But it was actually for us, a very late.

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Intriguing into the process.

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We were completely into vegan Korean food.

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I was completely into glass

noodles and the Oh, che.

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Yeah.

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And I was, that made up from sweet

potato starch and they're really chewy.

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Right.

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And I was completely into all

of that from my college years.

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Uh, and, you know, I was, I was into

the, uh, the quote unquote Korean

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sushi with the, like the machi rolls,

uh, that you run through the hot.

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Red sauce.

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I was into all of that, but I didn't

actually until late know very much about

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Korean barbecue, which is really weird.

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'cause again, I think that's

where most people start these.

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Bruce: And Korean barbecue is

a huge category of Korean food.

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Yeah.

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I mean there are Korean barbecue

restaurants where that's all they serve.

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Mark: And I should say that one of

the moments when we really, uh, got

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into Korean barbecue was in Dallas.

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We were visiting my parents.

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We had had some Korean

barbecue here in New England.

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I'll let Bruce tell that story, but we'd

had some Korean barbecue here in New

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England, but then we were in Dallas and

it just so happened that right where I

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grew up in North Dallas, a Korea town

had in fact moved into a huge area.

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If you know Dallas, this is.

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At, uh, Royal Lane and Harry Hines,

and it became all of this Korean

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restaurants, Korean grocery stores,

Korean hair cutting salons, nail salons.

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The whole business moved into

there and there was a Korean

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barbecue restaurant there.

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And we were with my dad and mom and,

I don't know, maybe for a holiday.

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And I found this place online.

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I was like, oh, we're gonna

go try this Korean barbecue.

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And my mom and dad

would not go down there.

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They would not come with us.

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They no way refused.

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So they went to the vegan Korean

restaurant in New York City.

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I think it had to do with New York City.

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Put their guard down and so

they were able to go there.

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But thi this, they were like, no way.

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It

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Bruce: may have scared them

the idea of barbecue and meats.

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They might not have been, know what

kind of meat that was gonna be.

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Might, well, I don't might

even if they knew it was

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Mark: frightening.

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Do it yourself.

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Barbecue.

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Well

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Bruce: that is the thing.

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Korean barbecue is do it yourself.

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They, you're, you're sitting

at a table with a burner in

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the middle, in front of you.

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Um, some.

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Restaurants, it's gas flames.

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Some places they actually bring

a charcoal bucket and we'll talk

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about that experience we had in la.

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So I think this place in Dallas,

it was a gas flame and they

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put a metal, yes, it was gas.

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They put a metal pan over

that with slits in it.

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And you grill your meat on this,

almost griddled on this metal pan.

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They bring you a platter of

meat that you order and you can

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order pork belly, you can order.

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Um.

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You can order pork belly,

you can order short ribs, you

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Mark: can order all sorts of meat.

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Okay.

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So,

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Bruce: yeah.

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And you

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Mark: grill it yourself.

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Yeah.

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You grill it yourself.

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So now I, I'm sorry I'm pushing

you on, but let's you talk

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about Jacque for a moment.

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Bruce: Oh, that's how we got this.

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That's how we first found

out about Korean barbecue.

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:

So a very dear friend of ours who lives

in New England, right near us, her

420

:

son-in-law is Korean and his name is Yuck.

421

:

And he would.

422

:

Always make Korean barbecue for them.

423

:

Mm-hmm.

424

:

And we started to get

invited to all these dinners.

425

:

Mm-hmm.

426

:

And yuck would bring all these

fabulous short ribs and, and it's the

427

:

cross cut flunking style short ribs.

428

:

And he'd marinate them in beautiful

Korean marinades and grill them.

429

:

And then traditionally, as always, you

cut them into pieces with scissors.

430

:

Mark: And, let me finish, let me get

in and let me say that what, how.

431

:

Did, and I think what blew both of our

minds is Jacque upped the condiment game.

432

:

Mark (2): Mm-hmm.

433

:

Mark: That's what we didn't know.

434

:

Yeah.

435

:

We did know about grilling the meat.

436

:

What we didn't know is all the

billions of condiments that you

437

:

can put on the Korean barbecue.

438

:

Bruce: So like my favorite thing,

Jiang, it's uh, a paste that is

439

:

put on so much barbecued Korean

meat, and it's a combination of.

440

:

Dun Jang, which is a fermented

soybean paste and gochujang,

441

:

which is a sticky, sweet, spicy

paste and garlic and sesame oil.

442

:

It is, dare I say, it

is the Korean ketchup.

443

:

It is amazing.

444

:

It is the Korean version

of Indian chutney.

445

:

It's like the go-to condiment to put on.

446

:

Anything that comes off the grill.

447

:

Mark: So after Cka had gotten

us into Korean barbecue and

448

:

we'd had some, uh, elsewhere we

went to on this trip to la Mm.

449

:

And uh, we decided we were

gonna go off on vacation.

450

:

We had a week.

451

:

We didn't know where to go.

452

:

Neither has really spent a

lot of time in la We ended up

453

:

going to La, Los Angeles Yeah.

454

:

For a week.

455

:

And both of us fell dead

in love with Los Angeles.

456

:

And we did, but we ate like beasts

for a week and it was fantastic.

457

:

But one of the places Bruce chose for

lunch was this Korean barbecue spot

458

:

in Koreatown in la and , so, I think,

how do I know this place is good?

459

:

And we drive up and we open the

front door and what happens?

460

:

Bruce: Smoke.

461

:

So it's pouring out the front door, like

462

:

Mark: seriously, as if, as if

the place inside is on fire.

463

:

So

464

:

Bruce: it is true, every

single table has a vent.

465

:

Like that comes right down over to suck

the smoke up because this place actually

466

:

brings you a box of burning charcoal.

467

:

Mm-hmm.

468

:

Puts that in the hole, in the table.

469

:

Mm-hmm.

470

:

Between you.

471

:

Mm-hmm.

472

:

Turns on the vent, but that vent is fine

until you put the meat on the grill.

473

:

Mm-hmm.

474

:

And then the smoke, it was.

475

:

Spectacular.

476

:

And we did have to go back to our

hotel and take a shower and wash our

477

:

hair because it smelled like reminded

478

:

Mark: me of being in a gay bar when,

back in the days when I did such things.

479

:

Mark (2): And you would come out, did

it smell come like Korean barbecue?

480

:

Mark: No, but you would come out

smelling like smoke disgust and you'd

481

:

have to go home and take a shower

because it was so disgust disgusting.

482

:

Your clothes smelled like smoke.

483

:

Your hair smelled like smoke.

484

:

It was like that, except we

smelled like Korean barbecue.

485

:

But I

486

:

Bruce: learned something

else in that restaurant.

487

:

And that was the.

488

:

First place that we had ever experienced

this idea of banchan and banchan are all

489

:

those little side dishes of vegetables

and fermented pickles and all sorts of

490

:

things that come with your main course.

491

:

And in a barbecue restaurant where the

only main courses are grilled meat,

492

:

they are first going to bring you.

493

:

Bowl after bowl after bowl of

bunch on, and they're gonna

494

:

put out 10, 12, 15 of these

495

:

Mark: side dishes.

496

:

And being the total westerner that I

am, when I first started eating Korean

497

:

food, I would let all those bowls sit

on the table because I thought I was

498

:

being polite and waiting for the main

course that I was to eat them with.

499

:

I didn't realize until I started

looking around me what other people

500

:

were doing that they were just digging

into all those bowls and eating the

501

:

kimchi and eating this and that, and

the other that came and the bowls

502

:

even before the main course arrived.

503

:

Mm-hmm.

504

:

I was being so decorated.

505

:

We didn't

506

:

Bruce: know what to do with this stuff.

507

:

In fact, we didn't.

508

:

We went, we went to a Korean restaurant

in Bayside where I grew up in Queens,

509

:

and that when I was growing up, of

course in the sixties, that was an

510

:

old Jewish neighborhood, and now

it's an all Korean neighborhood.

511

:

Mm-hmm.

512

:

Everything is Korean.

513

:

Mm-hmm.

514

:

Mm-hmm.

515

:

There are.

516

:

Korean restaurants in every corner.

517

:

There were even Korean Chinese

restaurants on every other corner.

518

:

Yeah.

519

:

Mark: Which is a really

interesting category and I don't

520

:

think most people know about it.

521

:

And that is Chinese food as

CED through Korean techniques.

522

:

It

523

:

Bruce: was fabulous.

524

:

Mark: It's really a wild subcategory.

525

:

Mm-hmm.

526

:

Of Chinese food.

527

:

It's interesting.

528

:

Bruce: But we went to a tofu

restaurant 'cause tofu is a.

529

:

Huge ingredient and thing in Korean

food, and we went to a tofu restaurant

530

:

and we ordered this dish called kimchi

gge, which is a big, famous dish.

531

:

It is a stew made with this fermented

bean paste and lots of kimchi in it.

532

:

Mark: One of my favorite things,

and when Bruce asks me What do I

533

:

want for dinner at this point, I

often say kimchi, gigga, because,.

534

:

Is so satisfying.

535

:

Lots of onions, lots of kimchi,

long braised pork belly.

536

:

It's so delicious.

537

:

But as Bruce says, it

does have tofu in it.

538

:

It has tofu in it.

539

:

Lots of tofu.

540

:

But

541

:

Bruce: among all the baan they

brought to us, there was one

542

:

little bowl that had an egg.

543

:

Now, mark and I both assumed

this was a hard boiled egg.

544

:

No, I don't like hard boiled eggs.

545

:

Okay, so I'm not gonna touch it.

546

:

And he didn't eat it.

547

:

And it went back with all the dishes.

548

:

Only then at the next table did we see a

couple, two women ordered the same dish

549

:

we did, and they picked up that egg and

it was raw, and they cracked the egg into

550

:

the bubbling hot dish of kimchi shige.

551

:

And I'm like, oh, I want to do over.

552

:

Mark: I have to add to this story

because our waiter came over and

553

:

she saw that we hadn't cracked the

egg in before we figured out what

554

:

other people were doing with it.

555

:

And she swept.

556

:

Egg off the table because

we had half eaten the stew.

557

:

Yes.

558

:

In disgust.

559

:

She looked at us in disgust

and swept it off the table.

560

:

Well, no one ever told

561

:

Bruce: me you're supposed

to put the egg in it.

562

:

No.

563

:

I wish I'd

564

:

Mark: known.

565

:

Now I know I didn't know

this kind of stuff either.

566

:

So this is, this is this whole bit

of slowly introducing ourselves to

567

:

Korean food and we're saying all

this because we hope that perhaps

568

:

we could inspire you to try it.

569

:

Mm-hmm.

570

:

And one of the great ways you

could try it is you could go to

571

:

a large Korean grocery store.

572

:

We've.

573

:

Talked about H Mart endlessly, but

you could go to H Mart and you could

574

:

see the prepared foods and there's

a lot of big foods that you can just

575

:

actually buy right there and eat.

576

:

Mm-hmm.

577

:

You could try it out.

578

:

You can go to a local Korean

restaurant, you can try the Be

579

:

Bimba, you can try various things.

580

:

One of the places that is really

easy to try in North America at

581

:

this point is the chain Banon,

which makes Korean fried chicken.

582

:

Mm-hmm.

583

:

Bruce and I often go to the Bon Chun in

New England about an hour away from us.

584

:

But when we're over at Costco, we often

stop at Bon Chun for lunch and uh, they

585

:

make really crispy, unbelievably crispy,

uh, fried chicken that I wanna have.

586

:

The super, super hot

sauce doused all over it.

587

:

Now,

588

:

Bruce: we've never ordered off

the other part of the menu.

589

:

No, but they do have a whole side of

the menu that is more traditional.

590

:

No, I know Korean dishes.

591

:

So if you go there, you can try Beam Map.

592

:

Mm-hmm.

593

:

You can try bulgogi.

594

:

No, you can try DeBakey.

595

:

No.

596

:

Which are those chewy rice

cakey sticks in a sweet and hot

597

:

Mark: sauce, which

598

:

Bruce: are amazing.

599

:

Mark: Yes, uh, you can, but again,

Bonton is a great way to start.

600

:

And if you go there, get, uh, what

is sometimes called chicken moo

601

:

or the, the, what do they call it?

602

:

Pickled radish or something.

603

:

They call it pickled

604

:

Bruce: radish, right?

605

:

It's often called chicken moo

because moo is the word for radish.

606

:

In Korean and you pickle it and it's

what is served with fried chicken.

607

:

So it's called chicken moo,

608

:

Mark: right?

609

:

Chicken radish.

610

:

And you can get that as a side

dish and eat it with your fried

611

:

chicken, which is what we do.

612

:

Um, and it's really delicious and

there are all kinds of ways to find and

613

:

expand your palate with Korean food.

614

:

Oh, and if you've done this and know

how to do this, then eventually, maybe

615

:

the hope is you might even start.

616

:

Making some of this at home

again, I think Kim Shiga is a

617

:

really great winter stew to make.

618

:

Mm-hmm.

619

:

So why don't you just do a really simple

walkthrough of how you make Kim Shige?

620

:

Bruce: You wanna take a heavy

small pan, like something you

621

:

would make a soup or a stew in.

622

:

And it's not too big 'cause you don't

really make giant batches of this,

623

:

like a two quart or one quart pot.

624

:

And I put a little sesame oil

in the bottom and I know people

625

:

say, don't saute with sesame oil,

but I'd like it for this dish.

626

:

And I put in a ton of fresh

ginger and onion, raw, raw onion.

627

:

Raw, raw, sliced onion.

628

:

And I just, just let it start sizzling.

629

:

You don't really want

to cook it very much.

630

:

And then you.

631

:

Dump in a ton of fresh kimchi.

632

:

Chop it up so that it's a

little easier to deal with.

633

:

Mm-hmm.

634

:

Put in some sliced pork belly,

and then you're going to

635

:

cover that with some broth.

636

:

Now you can use chicken broth.

637

:

You can use vegetable broth.

638

:

Traditionally, I would like to flavor

that broth with some dried anchovies.

639

:

If you don't have those, you can

get something called Handi in an

640

:

Asian market, which is a Japanese

dashi powder, and that'll give

641

:

you that slight fish flavor to it.

642

:

You be really careful with it.

643

:

Just put a teaspoon, tiny little bits in

with your chicken broth, and then you have

644

:

to put a little sweetener, so sometimes

a little brown sugar, a little corn

645

:

syrup works, and then the chili flakes.

646

:

You need chili flakes,

gochugaru, gochugaru, and then

647

:

the pork belly, as I said,

648

:

Mark: go is a think about red.

649

:

Uh, pepper Flakes, you know,

the, that, that you put on pizza.

650

:

Mm-hmm.

651

:

But they're not, this is a Korean

version that's kind of like that.

652

:

It's a coarsely, ground dried red pepper.

653

:

It is hot.

654

:

I will use two tablespoons for

a quart sized pot for us and.

655

:

I have watched many at this point of a

cooking video of people making kimchi

656

:

shiga online, and I see them put what

could only be a half cob, three quarters

657

:

of a cob of the, it's really hot.

658

:

It's really hot.

659

:

We don't.

660

:

Quite go that hot, but, and

661

:

Bruce: once it comes to a simmer,

you're gonna let that simmer away

662

:

for about 40 minutes until the pork

belly is tender about halfway through.

663

:

I'm gonna open it and I'm

gonna put tofu on the top.

664

:

You can use a firm tofu.

665

:

A soft tofu.

666

:

I like to use silk and tofu

because that's really good.

667

:

And if I'm using.

668

:

Silicon.

669

:

I put it in closer to the

end just to warm it up.

670

:

'cause I don't want it to break apart.

671

:

We tend not to put the egg in

it when we have it at home.

672

:

Right.

673

:

But you can put the egg

in it and that's it.

674

:

So it's the kimchi, the onions,

the sesame oil, and that's it.

675

:

The fishy broth.

676

:

It's the, I notice that

the writer has to fun of.

677

:

Mark: That's it, because like that's it.

678

:

I'm sorry.

679

:

That's not just, that's it.

680

:

Okay.

681

:

Bruce: Well if you wanna

really go, that's it.

682

:

The sweetener traditionally in

Korean food would be rice syrup.

683

:

Okay.

684

:

So anyway.

685

:

Mark: Yeah, that's it.

686

:

And I have to say that we, uh, Bruce

often makes, uh, Kim Suge in a totally

687

:

non-traditional way, and he makes it

instead a pork belly with beef oxtails.

688

:

And in fact, the Korean man

who kind of got us on the jag

689

:

of Korean barbecue, fantastic.

690

:

Actually ate Bruce's oxtail,

Kim Shige, and he was rather

691

:

speechless about the whole thing.

692

:

It's not that he didn't like it, he

just, it was like he couldn't process it.

693

:

He didn't

694

:

Bruce: know he, that's

695

:

one of the things I've discovered

about a lot of Korean food.

696

:

The dishes are very.

697

:

Set.

698

:

Like this dish has these

ingredients, right?

699

:

And this dish has these ingredients,

and once you switch out one ingredient,

700

:

it's like traditionalists will go.

701

:

I don't even know what that dish is now.

702

:

I don't recognize it.

703

:

Mark: Well, I, yeah, I, I don't

know that that's a, that that's,

704

:

uh, necessarily a Korean thing.

705

:

I think that, oh no, I think

that comes with a lot of things.

706

:

That's a French thing.

707

:

Mm-hmm.

708

:

That's.

709

:

It's the Jewish grandmother thing.

710

:

That's, that's, oh my gosh.

711

:

So I, I'm totally off Korean for a

minute, but I just wanna say that when,

712

:

uh, years ago we wrote the Ultimate

Cookbook, which was 900 recipes,

713

:

his first giant book we ever wrote.

714

:

And, um, it kind of represented

totally still represents the way

715

:

Bruce cooks on an everyday basis.

716

:

900 recipes is a huge,

huge encyclopedia book.

717

:

And, um, we said we write this book.

718

:

And it got of course reviews.

719

:

And this one reviewer, his comment was out

of 900 recipes, he made a big deal that

720

:

Bruce put garlic powder in matza balls.

721

:

And it was this whole thing about matza

balls do not have garlic powder in them.

722

:

And it, it, it, it's back to that, you

know, there is a way to make matza balls

723

:

and it's the way I grew up making it.

724

:

And that's the end of the matter

725

:

Bruce: in my defense.

726

:

If you look at the ingredient

list on the box of Manus

727

:

Chitz, matza bowl mix, I, yeah,

728

:

Mark: I know.

729

:

Garlic powder.

730

:

I know, but I'm just saying that

this is the way, I don't think it

731

:

has anything to do with Korean food.

732

:

This is the way that

storied dishes get mm-hmm.

733

:

Set.

734

:

Mm-hmm.

735

:

In a kind of, and don't

736

:

Bruce: change them.

737

:

Mark: Right.

738

:

In a kind of cultural matrix.

739

:

It's really weird.

740

:

Like, for example, I think that a lot

of us from the South have very set

741

:

ideas about what Hop and John is, what.

742

:

Cornbread is, I have

what fried chicken is.

743

:

I have very set ideas about cornbread

and my ideas about cornbread.

744

:

And I grew up, as you may know,

in Texas, and I grew up with mom,

745

:

who thought that putting sugar

in things made you low class.

746

:

So I grew up with

cornbread that did, had no.

747

:

Added sugar to it.

748

:

And still to this day, I can hear

my mother say, my now long gone

749

:

mother say about cornbread when she

bites into it, Ooh, this is cake.

750

:

Meaning, well so much.

751

:

It has no sugar.

752

:

Meaning it has sugar in it,

and she doesn't want any sugar.

753

:

Bruce: How often have I bitten

into a piece of cornbread

754

:

in a barbecue restaurant?

755

:

Oh, and it's so sweet

and it's like dessert.

756

:

Wait a

757

:

Mark: second.

758

:

This is like a polenta cake,

but you didn't grow up with it.

759

:

And again, it's part of

what gets set in your head.

760

:

Like, like the Jewish matza balls

and soup and like mini Korean dishes.

761

:

These are storied dishes

from people's past.

762

:

Mm-hmm.

763

:

And so when you take this St story dish

and you add oxtails to it instead of pork

764

:

belly, it changes the whole thing around.

765

:

It did.

766

:

Bruce: And boy did.

767

:

I love it.

768

:

Mark: I do.

769

:

I actually love Kim

with, uh, oxtails in it.

770

:

I think it's really tasty.

771

:

so as we come to the end of this bit

about, uh, Korean food, is there any

772

:

Korean cookbook that you would recommend

if somebody wanted to buy a cookbook

773

:

and figure out how to make it at home?

774

:

Bruce: That's really a good question.

775

:

There's a brand new cookbook

that just came out this year and

776

:

it's actually up for some awards.

777

:

And it's called Uma, UMMA,

which is mom in Korean.

778

:

It's called Uma, and it is all about

home cooking and stories that this author

779

:

knows about from her mother and her

grandmother who taught her how to cook.

780

:

And the recipes are.

781

:

Just beautiful to look at and the

ingredients sound fabulous and I have

782

:

not cooked from me yet, but I have so

many flag that I'm going to be making.

783

:

Mark: So.

784

:

I hope that in saying all this, we

have inspired you to go out and find a

785

:

Korean restaurant to just experiment.

786

:

Maybe you wanna start

with Korean barbecue.

787

:

Maybe you wanna start with

a Korean vegan restaurant.

788

:

Maybe you already know all there is

to know about Korean food and you

789

:

want to, uh, tell us about that.

790

:

You can find us on the

Facebook group cooking.

791

:

Bruce and Mark will post this episode

of the podcast and you can tell us

792

:

your favorite Korean dishes or your own

experience the first time you ever had.

793

:

Korean food, or maybe you are Korean

and the best place where you live to

794

:

get Korean food beside your mom's house,

the best place to go buy Korean food.

795

:

Before we get to the final segment,

what's making us happy and food this week?

796

:

Let me just say that it would be

great if you could subscribe to this

797

:

podcast and if you could rate it,

if you could give it a star rating.

798

:

Can I ask for five?

799

:

That would be nice.

800

:

And a review that helps in the,

uh, algorithms and the analytics.

801

:

Thanks for doing that.

802

:

As you know, we are.

803

:

Unsupported.

804

:

We choose to be unsupported.

805

:

So it is the way that you can

actually help support this podcast.

806

:

Thanks for doing that.

807

:

I know it's an extra step and I

hate making, uh, any requests for

808

:

extra steps, but there you go.

809

:

Thanks for doing that.

810

:

Okay.

811

:

As is traditional, we're gonna

finish off with what's making

812

:

us happy in food this week.

813

:

Bruce: Crab apple hard cider.

814

:

Oh gosh.

815

:

You've heard me talk about hard cider

being one of my favorite things over

816

:

and over, but as Mark has said in a

previous episode, we have been recently

817

:

to the Finger Lakes and there are so

many cries around these lakes there.

818

:

It is not only a wine producing region,

it is a huge cider reproducing region

819

:

and increasingly cider reproducing.

820

:

We found some fabulous ones and we

bought a couple of big bottles of a.

821

:

Crab.

822

:

Apple cider.

823

:

Now

824

:

Mark: I should say, when we say

cider, we're talking about hard cider.

825

:

Hard cider

826

:

Bruce: beer levels four to 5%.

827

:

Mm.

828

:

So good.

829

:

So we had that crab, apple

cider with burgers for dinner,

830

:

and it was spectacular.

831

:

Mark: It was, it was really nice.

832

:

Yeah, it was really sour

and it was really great.

833

:

Okay, so what's making me

happy in food this week?

834

:

It is a lemon tart that Bruce made, and

I have to say that this is a really hard

835

:

thing for me to admit because I think I

am the master of the lemon meringue pie.

836

:

But Bruce made a lemon tart recently,

and you made it with a thicker crust.

837

:

So it was much more cookie like, and

then he put a lemon card on top of it

838

:

and he put an Italian meringue, which

is a cooked meringue on top of that.

839

:

So it's a marshmallowy sticky meringue.

840

:

I do the french meringue, the

traditional American lemon meringue

841

:

pie, where it's the French meringue.

842

:

It's really light and high.

843

:

His was much more marshmallowy

and his lemon tar was spectacular.

844

:

I ate way too much of it.

845

:

Mm-hmm.

846

:

It was really good and it's really

hard for me to give any creds to any

847

:

Lemon Tart except my own Lemon R pie,

which you do quite well, and which I

848

:

got the recipe from my grandmother.

849

:

So I am, uh, I'm really given a huge

kudos here, uh, because I think that it

850

:

was just this spectacular Lemon Tart, and

it's not only nice occasionally to have a

851

:

dessert that kind of blows your mind, so.

852

:

Hmm.

853

:

Thank you.

854

:

That was really nice and

it made me very happy.

855

:

Alright, that's the podcast for this week.

856

:

Thanks for listening to it.

857

:

Thanks for being part of

our podcast community.

858

:

Thanks for being on this Food

and Cooking journey with us.

859

:

We appreciate you more than you can know,

and we appreciate your being here with us

860

:

Bruce: more than you can know.

861

:

And as Mark said, please subscribe so

you don't miss a single episode when

862

:

we talk about Korean food, Chinese

food, Japanese food, and all the

863

:

foods that we are passionate about

here on cooking with Bruce and Mark.

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About the Podcast

Cooking with Bruce and Mark
Fantastic recipes, culinary science, a little judgment, hysterical banter, love and laughs--you know, life.
Join us, Bruce Weinstein and Mark Scarbrough, for weekly episodes all about food, cooking, recipes, and maybe a little marital strife on air. After writing thirty-six cookbooks, we've got countless opinions and ideas on ingredients, recipes, the nature of the cookbook-writing business, and much more. If you've got a passion for food, we also hope to up your game once and a while and to make you laugh most of the time. Come along for the ride! There's plenty of room!

About your host

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Mark Scarbrough

Former lit professor, current cookbook writer, creator of two podcasts, writer of thirty-five (and counting) cookbooks, author of one memoir (coming soon!), married to a chef (my cookbook co-writer, Bruce Weinstein), and with him, the owner of two collies, all in a very rural spot in New England. My life's full and I'm up for more challenges!