Podchaser Logo Rate on Podchaser

Episode 91

full
Published on:

4th Aug 2025

WELCOME TO OUR KITCHEN: What have we learned after publishing thirty-seven cookbooks?

We've learned a lot after writing and publishing after thirty-seven cookbooks. We'd love to share with you those lessons.

We're Bruce Weinstein & Mark Scarbrough. We've actually written forty cookbooks, including two knitting books by Bruce and a memoir by Mark. We've been around the block! We'd love to tell you what we've learned over this long publishing career.

We've also got a one-minute cooking tip. And we're really excited about a specific type of melon and Mark's really excited about a specific way to cook goat.

If you'd like to get a copy of our latest cookbook, COLD CANNING, please check it out at this link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of COOKING WITH BRUCE & MARK:

[01:22] Our one-minute cooking tip: Store garlic at room temperature

[03:27] What have we learned after writing and publishing thirty-seven cookbooks.

[23:27] What’s making us happy in food this week? Melons and goat!

Transcript
Mark:

Hey, I am Bruce Weinstein, and this is the Podcast

2

:

Cooking with Bruce and Martin.

3

:

And I'm Mark Scarborough.

4

:

And together with Bruce, you know we

have written 37 cookbooks, but you

5

:

also know that our latest cookbook,

cold counting is on sale now.

6

:

Finally.

7

:

Mm-hmm.

8

:

Finally, we've talked about it enough.

9

:

It is.

10

:

Out there, small batch canning.

11

:

It is a gorgeous book.

12

:

Go out to our TikTok channel and

watch me do an unboxing video of

13

:

the first time we see this cookbook.

14

:

It's kind of fascinating.

15

:

I think I posted it on Instagram on my

personal account too and on Facebook.

16

:

Um, it's fascinating 'cause a, I hate.

17

:

Author unboxing videos,

but BI get to see it.

18

:

And, uh, this thing weighs a ton.

19

:

425 recipes on really high

gloss, beautiful paper.

20

:

Tons of photographs.

21

:

How many photographs?

22

:

I

23

:

Bruce: don't

24

:

Mark: even remember.

25

:

A

26

:

Bruce: 2 25.

27

:

Mark: Yeah.

28

:

Lots of photographs beautifully

designed, beautifully laid out.

29

:

The publisher.

30

:

Little grounded.

31

:

Uh.

32

:

Bang up job on this book.

33

:

When we turned in the manuscript,

I never expected it to look like

34

:

this, so go check out cold canning.

35

:

But before that, we do

have a podcast to do.

36

:

We've got a one minute cooking tip.

37

:

We'll tell you what we have learned after

the publication of our 37th cookbook.

38

:

What have we learned about

this cookbook career?

39

:

And I will tell you what's making

us happy in food this week.

40

:

So let's get started.

41

:

Bruce: Our one minute cooking tip.

42

:

Store garlic at room

temperature, not in the fridge.

43

:

I, I don't

44

:

Mark: think a lot of people know

that garlic is a dried food product.

45

:

Mm-hmm.

46

:

It is dried.

47

:

And you talk about that for a second.

48

:

Well,

49

:

Bruce: Gar, when garlic comes outta the

ground as fresh garlic, it's very wet,

50

:

very pungent, and it has to dry out.

51

:

The husks have to dry out.

52

:

The cloves shrink a little bit.

53

:

Mm.

54

:

I mean, they're not dried

like gradable dried.

55

:

No, but they are, they shrink, they

condense, they get dried and is the

56

:

real term, even though they're not.

57

:

You know desiccated,

58

:

Mark: right?

59

:

Bruce: They're not like dried oregano,

60

:

Mark: but

61

:

Bruce: is a dry, you have

to hang it and dry it.

62

:

Yeah.

63

:

My friend Rich has a beautiful garden.

64

:

He grows so much stuff and he grows

like hundreds and hundreds of garlic

65

:

bulbs, and every spring and early summer

he comes over and he brings me these.

66

:

Beautiful braids as he's tied up of

garlic bulbs and I hang them in my

67

:

kitchen and cut them off as I need them.

68

:

True.

69

:

All

70

:

Mark: winter long.

71

:

True.

72

:

He also hangs onions.

73

:

Yep.

74

:

Right.

75

:

I don't think a lot of people

know that onions have to be

76

:

hung for a while and dried out.

77

:

I mean, you can't eat them

right outta the ground.

78

:

You can't eat raw garlic too, or raw.

79

:

You can't eat fresh garlic too.

80

:

But um, it's best to let it dry.

81

:

It concentrates the flavor.

82

:

There's a whole

83

:

Bruce: reason for this.

84

:

And garlic right outta the ground

also can cause stomach distress.

85

:

So there are chemicals in that that.

86

:

Break apart that you really don't

want to eat too much of when they're

87

:

first fresh outta the ground.

88

:

Not too much.

89

:

I mean, you can eat fresh garlic,

but you shouldn't eat a ton of it.

90

:

But let me say, don't keep it unlike

your window sill on a sunny kitchen.

91

:

No, because then your

garlic looks gonna sprout.

92

:

It's gonna think it's time to grow, right?

93

:

Keep it hanging where the sun don't shine.

94

:

Mark: If you buy garlic in a jar

that is pre peeled, that should go in

95

:

the fridge or pre minced even worse.

96

:

Yeah.

97

:

Garlic, as they call it,

garlic should definitely go in

98

:

the fridge once you open it.

99

:

Okay, that's our one minute cooking tip.

100

:

Um, before we get to the main part of this

podcast, let me say that it'd be great if

101

:

you could rate and like this podcast if

you give it a review that's even better,

102

:

and subscribe so you don't miss a single

episode of cooking with Bruce and Mark.

103

:

Okay, up next, what we've learned.

104

:

Now that we're publishing

our 37th cookbook,

105

:

Bruce: I learned how exhausting

it is that, I don't know, maybe

106

:

it's, I'm getting older and

the books are getting longer.

107

:

Mm-hmm.

108

:

So it's like, shouldn't it

have gone the other way?

109

:

Shouldn't the books be getting

shorter as I get older, but

110

:

they're getting longer and bigger.

111

:

Mark (2): Our agent always.

112

:

Says about publishing that every year

we get older and they get younger, they

113

:

'cause they get fired and a younger

person comes in and takes their place.

114

:

So, oh, it is

115

:

Bruce: true when we

were younger as authors.

116

:

Our publishers and everyone who

worked at the publishing house

117

:

was like our age that we are now.

118

:

Or older.

119

:

Or older as we are now.

120

:

Yeah.

121

:

Yeah.

122

:

And now it's flipped.

123

:

Here we are at our age being the

writers and our publisher and all the

124

:

people working there are the age we

were when we published our first book.

125

:

Mark: Right.

126

:

They're all at 40 or under.

127

:

Yeah.

128

:

Which is really wild.

129

:

So here's some of the things we've learned

about this cookbook career, and this is

130

:

not about cookbooks in particular, but I

should say that this seems really funny.

131

:

We learned to not give up on the dream.

132

:

Mm-hmm.

133

:

We wanted to write cookbooks.

134

:

When we first got together, Bruce and

I did, Bruce had published a drink book

135

:

with Clarkson Potter, an imprint of

Random House, and then he kept trying to

136

:

publish books and nothing ever happened.

137

:

And then I got involved

and we must have written.

138

:

I can't even tell you.

139

:

30, 40 proposals for cookbooks.

140

:

We kept trying to sell a book.

141

:

Mm-hmm.

142

:

And we just kept at it.

143

:

And I think a lot of people that

I've met in my life who have tried

144

:

to get into publishing, have written

something, submitted it, gotten

145

:

a rejection, and then never done.

146

:

Another thing

147

:

Bruce: I wanna say, this goes for.

148

:

Any creative career, not giving

up on what you really want.

149

:

Shit, when we go out to a restaurant

and if we start talking to the server

150

:

and they say they're really an actor

or a dancer, my first question is

151

:

always, where are you taking class?

152

:

You know?

153

:

'cause clearly you're not in a show

'cause you're in the restaurant, right?

154

:

Okay, so where are you taking class?

155

:

Where are you dancing?

156

:

Where are you acting?

157

:

If you're not doing that, then you're

not an actor, you are a waiter.

158

:

So when we said to people, well,

we want to write cookbooks.

159

:

The answer is, well, what

are you doing about it?

160

:

Endlessly writing cookbook

proposals endlessly.

161

:

Trying endlessly.

162

:

I've got an agent.

163

:

We are working on it.

164

:

We are always writing.

165

:

Mark: I mean, really, honestly,

we cranked out for about a

166

:

year and a half, two years.

167

:

Yeah, we cranked that proposal

after proposal after proposal

168

:

for various cookbook ideas.

169

:

Nothing came of it, but we just

wouldn't take no for an answer.

170

:

I

171

:

Bruce: will say that.

172

:

It got to a point where I

did almost give up on this.

173

:

You did.

174

:

And we were running out of money and

two years of this, we were, I had

175

:

been an advertising creative director

before this future year, Anna.

176

:

I mean,

177

:

Mark (2): honestly, we were

counting Nichols at this point.

178

:

Mm-hmm.

179

:

Bruce: And I had left my last

advertising job before I met

180

:

Mark when my book came out.

181

:

And now it was like, I

need to go back to work.

182

:

So I did.

183

:

I actually got a job as a creative

director again at a small ad agency,

184

:

and the day I accepted that job.

185

:

Our agent called and said

she had a book offer for us.

186

:

Yep.

187

:

So it was an interesting

moment, and we did both.

188

:

I kept the job and the book,

and we did it all together.

189

:

Well, we needed a

190

:

Mark: few more nickels even

as we were writing that book.

191

:

Yeah.

192

:

So fortunately you kept that job, but I

should also say that we've learned that

193

:

you have to be realistic about this dream.

194

:

Whatever your dream is in.

195

:

You do have to really

be realistic about it.

196

:

You can't just be a cockeyed

optimist to quote South Pacific.

197

:

You have to be, uh, realistic about it.

198

:

So, you know, I can tell you over the

years we have written books that we

199

:

might not otherwise have written mm-hmm.

200

:

On our own, because the

publisher have has that.

201

:

I have said we want this book.

202

:

Yep.

203

:

And so we have written, I, I would say

that when we jumped from Rodale to.

204

:

Uh, Clarkson Potter to Random House.

205

:

Mm-hmm.

206

:

Together years later, I don't think

either of us wanted to write a slow

207

:

cooker book, but Random House wanted

us to write a big slow cooker book.

208

:

Yeah.

209

:

And we did.

210

:

We threw ourself at it.

211

:

Bruce: It was nothing I would've.

212

:

Ever thought I wanted to do it.

213

:

And it took me a while to figure out

how to make food in them really good.

214

:

And in the end, we did a book

that was so full of recipes that

215

:

were delicious and so successful.

216

:

We sold out on QVC and that

book became a bestseller, right?

217

:

So be realistic.

218

:

Sometimes you're gonna do

things you don't want to do,

219

:

but you're gonna do them anyway.

220

:

Take the role you don't want as an actor.

221

:

Work backstage as a dancer.

222

:

Do what you have to do

to get in that theater.

223

:

Be part of your industry.

224

:

I think

225

:

Mark: Old Cold Canning is a grand example

of this because we met with our publisher,

226

:

uh, before, this is a year and a half ago

before we even started on cold canning,

227

:

and we were talking about what our

next book would be and he said, I would

228

:

really like a canning book in my list.

229

:

So we went away and we thought about

it and we saw a billion canning books

230

:

of for ball canning and all the.

231

:

Big giant bestsellers, the homesteading

books and all this kind of stuff.

232

:

And we were like, well, how

can we compete in that market?

233

:

And we tossed it around between us

enough that we came back to him with this

234

:

idea of cold canning, canning without

a canner where you just put it in the

235

:

fridge or the freezer and for storage.

236

:

And he loved it and bought the book.

237

:

So it, that isn't an idea

that Bruce and I generated.

238

:

It's an idea actually that it

began with him and then morphed.

239

:

To by us.

240

:

I will

241

:

Bruce: say that unlike the slow cooker

book, though, it resonated with us

242

:

because I had been making jams and jellies

and pickles and canning the, you know,

243

:

with processing for years and years.

244

:

So at least when he brought

that up, it was something

245

:

that resonated and excited us.

246

:

Yes.

247

:

So it wasn't a hard stretch to

say, Ooh, let's figure this out.

248

:

Mark: Yes, that's right.

249

:

And I think that that's been, you know,

largely what a lot of the things we've

250

:

done in our career, and not only the

books we wrote, but the books that we

251

:

fixed for other people, they're not

necessarily books we would've touched.

252

:

We, over the years, have fixed and even

written celebrities books and, um, some of

253

:

them we would never have touched before.

254

:

I can't talk much about them.

255

:

Well, some of them confidentiality

agreements, but we would

256

:

Bruce: never have written Dr.

257

:

Phil's diet.

258

:

Oh, there's one without

259

:

Mark: a confidentiality agreement.

260

:

Bruce: Ew.

261

:

It was not a good experience

working with a celebrity like

262

:

that who was so full of himself.

263

:

No, it was terrible experience.

264

:

No, it was not a good experience.

265

:

The book was great.

266

:

We did a great job on the book,

but it wasn't a good experience.

267

:

So I

268

:

Mark: think we've also discovered

that over the years that food is

269

:

very personal and it's very divisive.

270

:

Mm-hmm.

271

:

And when you're a food writer and

you write a book or you write recipes

272

:

and then you tell someone about it.

273

:

Sometimes you get the idea response

of oh, or Wow or that kind of

274

:

thing, but you get a lot of ew.

275

:

And um, that is a really interesting

problem for a creative because I

276

:

don't think a lot of people who

dance or sing or write novels, I

277

:

don't think they often get the.

278

:

Ew factor from it, right?

279

:

I mean, somebody might write a

nasty review online of a novel.

280

:

Well, that's refuse, but

gently not to your face.

281

:

Mm-hmm.

282

:

I've never seen somebody at all

the book events we've ever been

283

:

to with novelists sitting around.

284

:

I remember seeing somebody come up to a

novelist and go, I really hated your book.

285

:

Bruce: No, it's about food.

286

:

It's 'cause it's about food.

287

:

If someone says they dance with a certain

dance company and you don't like that

288

:

kind of dance, you're not gonna go ew.

289

:

Right.

290

:

But if you Exactly.

291

:

If you were to say to someone you're

writing a book about, I don't know,

292

:

casseroles, and they had a terrible

experience with casseroles as a kid,

293

:

they're gonna go, Ew, because it's food.

294

:

And food triggers all of these

295

:

Mark: emotions.

296

:

And I think one of the big changes that

has happened in all these years of writing

297

:

cookbooks for us is that cookbooks have

gone, and I'm gonna use weird words

298

:

here, but they have gone from content.

299

:

Based to vibe based.

300

:

I explained that.

301

:

Okay.

302

:

So when we started writing cookbooks,

cookbooks were compendiums of recipes.

303

:

So you get a book and the whole

point of it was that it was all this

304

:

giant encyclopedic list of recipes.

305

:

But now a cookbook is as much about

its design and it's vibe and it.

306

:

Feel right, the current word, the

style vibe, that it gives you a certain

307

:

feeling, a certain emotional landscape.

308

:

You look at it and you

think certain things.

309

:

I think that one of the things that's

changed huge over our career is

310

:

this shift toward vibe based books.

311

:

It's really bizarre, uh, for

people who came up in the era

312

:

of like the joy of cooking.

313

:

When you have these books or you

know, the big Julia Child mastering

314

:

the Art of French cooking that are.

315

:

Encyclopedias.

316

:

Bruce: Well, you know who did that?

317

:

I mean, that was Martha Stewart.

318

:

She did that single handedly.

319

:

She

320

:

Mark: was one of the people

who started the vibe trend.

321

:

Yep.

322

:

Bruce: She did that with

her book Entertaining.

323

:

It was all about, oh, it's not

just that I'm doing a clam bake.

324

:

I'm doing a clam bake at my beach house.

325

:

Right.

326

:

And these.

327

:

This is the way I should decorate

it, and this is the music that should

328

:

be played and the drinks served.

329

:

It was a lifestyle.

330

:

She turned content into lifestyle, and she

331

:

Mark: also turned herself, I mean herself,

former Wall Street Trader and all that.

332

:

She was into this, um, to use the current

word, tra wife into the traditional wife.

333

:

She turned herself into a character

in the same way that Paul Rubins

334

:

turned himself into Peewee Herman.

335

:

Mm.

336

:

There's this way that especially in

the late eighties and early nineties,

337

:

people were creating characters.

338

:

And the characters were actually in

front of them in terms of the fame.

339

:

And I would argue that Martha Stewart

was a character of Martha Stewart.

340

:

Oh

341

:

Bruce: yeah.

342

:

That wasn't really who she was.

343

:

No,

344

:

Mark: not

345

:

Bruce: at all.

346

:

But she did something else with books.

347

:

She's the one who started

the trend for photography.

348

:

She did.

349

:

'cause before then.

350

:

Cookbooks didn't have photography, or if

they did, they were very few pictures.

351

:

That's usually, it was just on the cover.

352

:

Our first 13 books that we published had

353

:

Mark: no photos and, and that's none.

354

:

Sorry.

355

:

I was gonna say, and that's

part of the vibe thing.

356

:

Yeah.

357

:

Photos are the prime way that vibe gets.

358

:

Uh, communicated when you flipped

your book in a bookstore as if you do

359

:

this anymore, as if anyone goes to a

bookstore and flips through a book.

360

:

Um, I went to Barnes and Noble the

other day and, uh, I don't know, it

361

:

seemed like a greeting card store to me.

362

:

Mm-hmm.

363

:

But anyway, like anybody goes to a

bookstore and flips through books, but,

364

:

um, uh, when you do, you're looking at the

pictures, you're not reading the recipes.

365

:

Sara, you're getting this

vibe sense outta the book.

366

:

And

367

:

Bruce: you can't have a book

without photography these days.

368

:

So when you make a book proposal

and you're trying to sell a book,

369

:

we have to even put in there how

many photos we think the book should

370

:

have to really get the vibe going.

371

:

Right.

372

:

And our books tend to get more.

373

:

And more and more photos in them

374

:

Mark: and, and that's also part

of this trend over the years of

375

:

that, we've published 37 books that

recipes have shifted and nobody

376

:

really wants to know the how.

377

:

This is really interesting.

378

:

I think when, when we got into, I mean

people still wanna know the how, 'cause

379

:

they wanna see the recipe, but when we

got into writing cookbooks, the head

380

:

note, that is the note above the recipe.

381

:

The head note was all about the how.

382

:

Well make sure that your temperature

of your custard is blah, blah, blah.

383

:

Was all the tips as you're

going through the recipe,

384

:

right, of how to make it better.

385

:

Now that has all changed and the head

notes to recipes are all about why.

386

:

Mm-hmm.

387

:

Why should you make this recipe?

388

:

Why is this a good recipe?

389

:

Why does this recipe beat other recipes

for, I don't know, blueberry preserves?

390

:

Mm-hmm.

391

:

And that change, it may sound

subtle to you, but it is.

392

:

Huge in terms of how we

approach books because

393

:

Bruce: it's part of the whole

pitching a book idea to our

394

:

publisher in the first place.

395

:

Right.

396

:

Not only why this recipe, why this book?

397

:

Right, right.

398

:

Why should somebody buy this book?

399

:

The thing we always hate to

hear from our publisher is.

400

:

Your book is the answer to a question

401

:

Mark: nobody's asked.

402

:

Yeah, that's his, that's his constant

comment is that a book has to answer a

403

:

question that people are actually asking.

404

:

Mm-hmm.

405

:

And so, uh, this is why Google

Trends searches are really important.

406

:

Google keyword searches are really

important to sell a book because, uh,

407

:

the people, he wants people to see an

answer to a question they're asking.

408

:

I, I should say that when we first got

into this business, uh, we wrote the

409

:

ultimate candy book and we turned it in.

410

:

This is.

411

:

2000, we turned it in.

412

:

Mm-hmm.

413

:

And, um, the head notes were full

of stories about Bruce's, uh,

414

:

relationship with Kandy as a kid.

415

:

His grandmothers going to candy stores.

416

:

The head notes were all full of hiding

417

:

Bruce: it under my

418

:

Mark: bed.

419

:

Yeah.

420

:

Rotting my teeth out.

421

:

All bits about.

422

:

Candy from his childhood, and that book

was kicked back and we had to rewrite

423

:

it because the publisher had a strong

dictum at Harper Collins that no personal

424

:

information can ever appear in a recipe.

425

:

So a recipe had to almost be

like a science experiment.

426

:

It had to be.

427

:

Clean and objective.

428

:

These days there was no vibe, right?

429

:

No.

430

:

These days, what everybody seems to

want is personal information like,

431

:

oh, Bruce made me this the other

night for dinner, and la da da da.

432

:

People seem to want the story.

433

:

Now I can argue, and this is bigger

than this podcast, I can argue that

434

:

part of why we were told to take.

435

:

Out personal material is the fear

of homophobia in the year:

436

:

But I think it was also a

part of a general trend.

437

:

A lot of those books

made a heater's books.

438

:

They don't include, I made a heater

making this and how she made it.

439

:

Mm-hmm.

440

:

Now she found this recipe.

441

:

Mm-hmm.

442

:

And yada, yada, yada.

443

:

It's all about how to make this right.

444

:

The tips to make these cookies right.

445

:

Bruce: But she did have this

interesting thing going on in her books.

446

:

A lot of her recipe titles.

447

:

Were sort of personal and

no one knew what they meant.

448

:

Yeah.

449

:

Like 22nd floor blondies.

450

:

'cause some woman in her condo in Florida

on the 22nd floor gave her this recipe.

451

:

Mark: Yeah.

452

:

Bruce: So it's like, what,

what a 22nd floor blondies.

453

:

But,

454

:

Mark: but it still, her

head notes were not.

455

:

Very personal or I think

about Marcella Hasan.

456

:

I mean, yes.

457

:

Did you know about Venetian cooking

and Marcella Hasan and her experience?

458

:

Maybe you knew, maybe you knew

about her experience in the

459

:

war, but maybe, maybe not.

460

:

No.

461

:

Um, and it was a, it was a whole.

462

:

Different vibe to the Cook Bowl.

463

:

Well, in a vibe, it was this

idea that a recipe's supposed

464

:

to be something objective.

465

:

This is the best way to make roast land.

466

:

I still think that over the years we

have discovered that US citizens are

467

:

not afraid of metric measurements.

468

:

Bruce: Not anymore.

469

:

They were, it was terrified of it

were they were, oh my goodness.

470

:

It meant you were communist, but

now people are weighing their flour.

471

:

Mm-hmm.

472

:

Weighing their sugar.

473

:

Mm-hmm.

474

:

Mark: Mm-hmm.

475

:

Bruce: You know, sugar's

one thing, this is

476

:

Mark: particularly a millennial and

Gen Z thing, they are not afraid

477

:

of the metric measurements when

478

:

Bruce: it comes to cooking some things.

479

:

Weighing is not that

crucial, in my opinion.

480

:

If I am pouring oil into a wok to stir fry

a dish, I'm not gonna measure out or weigh

481

:

my oil by the milliliter or the gram.

482

:

It's not that important.

483

:

Right?

484

:

But if I'm baking bread, I am so

weighing that flour because four of us.

485

:

In this house can take up a measuring

cup, dip it into that pot of flour,

486

:

and each come out with a different

weight of flour for that one dip.

487

:

Mark: Yeah.

488

:

Yeah.

489

:

I mean, in cold canning.

490

:

Uh, we put all the ingredients in both,

um, volume amounts, like a cup and

491

:

a tablespoon, but we also have every

single ingredient in a metric amount,

492

:

15 milliliters, 50 grams, 190 grams.

493

:

And that's because people are not afraid

of the metric measurements anymore.

494

:

Mm-hmm.

495

:

Many people do have kitchen scales, and it

is a far more accurate way, particularly

496

:

when you deal with things like sugar,

where the grind of sugar in North

497

:

America, what we call granulated white

sugar, is different than castor sugar.

498

:

In the uk the grind is different.

499

:

So you really have to buy the

weight of the sugar involved

500

:

to make the recipe work.

501

:

Bruce: Absolutely.

502

:

Because you're canning, right?

503

:

You're preserving, so

you want your ratios.

504

:

Sugar and vinegar and salt

and all of that to be precise.

505

:

So it comes out and it stays fresh.

506

:

Mark: Right, exactly.

507

:

And so what's the most important

thing about this career?

508

:

Bruce: Oh, keep things new.

509

:

Keep things fresh.

510

:

Yeah.

511

:

Keep things exciting.

512

:

Yeah, absolutely.

513

:

Which is funny because for years.

514

:

Like we did instant pop books.

515

:

Right?

516

:

Right.

517

:

And so we did four instant

pop books in a row.

518

:

It's so hard to keep that fresh and new.

519

:

Oh my gosh, that's so crazy.

520

:

And we were desperate

to do something else.

521

:

And the publishers, no,

your books are successful.

522

:

Let's do another one.

523

:

Mark: The the worst was writing what?

524

:

A 350 recipe instant pop book.

525

:

And then having our publisher say, I

want another 350 recipe to follow it.

526

:

To follow it.

527

:

And I was like, oh my gosh, how are we?

528

:

We thought in 350

recipes, we had killed it.

529

:

We thought we had done everything you

could do in an instant pot and now

530

:

we gotta do it again with new things.

531

:

It was an insane, daunting task.

532

:

It was

533

:

Bruce: hard to stay fresh and exciting and

new, but we did, and we made a really good

534

:

book that was new, but keep things new.

535

:

Change your style,

change what you're doing.

536

:

Learn a new language.

537

:

Learn a new dance step.

538

:

Yeah.

539

:

Yeah.

540

:

Take up a new instrument.

541

:

Yeah.

542

:

Walk a different

543

:

Mark: path to the store tomorrow.

544

:

Yeah.

545

:

Yeah.

546

:

It's really important, especially

as you age, because as you probably

547

:

know, um, your memory is encoding

where you go, let's say, and it's

548

:

holding those memories sacrosanct.

549

:

So this is why you can drive

down the street and not realize

550

:

you have driven down that.

551

:

Street because you've driven down it

so many times that you get home to

552

:

your driveway and you're like, wait a

minute, I don't even remember driving on

553

:

the freeway or on the surface streets.

554

:

Mm-hmm.

555

:

To my house.

556

:

And that's because you're not actually

registering it anymore in memory.

557

:

Your memory is holding that.

558

:

And so what your census are

picking up are not necessarily

559

:

going into your hippocampus and

into your memory at that point.

560

:

You're just, um, you know, we

would say doing it by rote,

561

:

but you're, you're sensing it.

562

:

Mm-hmm.

563

:

You know what you're driving down.

564

:

While you're doing it, but it's

not being laid down as a memory.

565

:

So as you get older, this more

and more happens and you need

566

:

to go different directions.

567

:

Mm-hmm.

568

:

And you need to take different,

uh, approaches to life and you

569

:

need to watch different shows, and

you need to read different books.

570

:

And you need to read, eat different foods.

571

:

Mark (2): Absolutely.

572

:

Mark: Because it's the only way you

can keep from petrifying as you age.

573

:

And it's the truth of

a creative career too.

574

:

Right.

575

:

You

576

:

Bruce: gotta keep moving.

577

:

You do have to keep me.

578

:

We watched.

579

:

You did lose

580

:

Mark: it.

581

:

Watched a fabulous documentary last night.

582

:

It's only 30 minutes long on Netflix.

583

:

About the only woman in the orchestra.

584

:

That's the name of the documentary.

585

:

It's about this woman who was

the first woman who got a seat

586

:

in the New York Philharmonic.

587

:

She played the double

588

:

Bruce: bass, actually, wasn't it

called The only girl in the orchestra?

589

:

Maybe The only girl at the time.

590

:

She was the girl.

591

:

Okay.

592

:

And back when she got in.

593

:

People like Zubin Meda, who was then at

the La Philharmonic were saying women

594

:

have no place in the Philharmonic.

595

:

Mark: That's right.

596

:

Bruce: And that by the time they

reached 60, they're no good anymore.

597

:

While men are still good as musicians.

598

:

Right.

599

:

It's

600

:

Mark: horrifying.

601

:

So it was this whole thing about her, and

it was basically about her retiring at

602

:

like 87 or 89 or something like that, 80.

603

:

From the New York Philharmonic.

604

:

And what was interesting to me about

that, she was moving out of her New

605

:

York apartment into a smaller apartment.

606

:

And you know, I mean she had these

four, um, antique double bases.

607

:

So one, one was made in

the 17 hundreds, right?

608

:

Mm-hmm.

609

:

Bruce: And the Steinway Grand, right?

610

:

It was,

611

:

Mark: she was a huge apartment, right?

612

:

And she was moving to

a smaller place, but.

613

:

She was not stopping

teaching new students at 89.

614

:

She had a whole coterie of double

base students who came from all

615

:

over the world to study with her,

616

:

Bruce: and she taught group

classes at the Manhattan School

617

:

of Music, and she just kept.

618

:

Ongoing.

619

:

Mark: That's right.

620

:

Even beyond retiring from

the New York Philharmonic.

621

:

So it was really fascinating.

622

:

She also talked about how she finally got

to go to concerts instead of having to

623

:

play the concerts, she was actually going

and sitting and listening to the music,

624

:

which is really a fascinating thing.

625

:

Um, check out the documentary.

626

:

The only Girl in the orchestra,

only about 30 minutes long.

627

:

It's really fascinating.

628

:

Okay.

629

:

That's what we've learned

over the years in writing.

630

:

37 cookbooks, some advice, maybe

things that we faltered on or that

631

:

we've learned and gotten better at.

632

:

It's all part of the process, I

guess, of being human, of learning

633

:

and learning and learning and

adapting, and adapting and adapting.

634

:

Before we get to the last segment of

this podcast, let me say that there is

635

:

a TikTok channel called Cooking with

Bruce and Mark, and on there you can

636

:

find all sorts of videos of, um, making.

637

:

Food, talking to each other, talking

about our relationship, how we met,

638

:

all kinds of, uh, stuff is on there.

639

:

We also have a Facebook group cooking

with Bruce and Mark, and of course we have

640

:

our own Instagram and Facebook feeds, and

I have my own Blue Sky feed, so you can

641

:

connect with us in all sorts of places.

642

:

Okay.

643

:

As these traditional, the final

segment of this podcast, what's

644

:

making us happy in food this week?

645

:

Bruce: As often For me,

it's a kind of melon.

646

:

I love these hammi melons, HAMI.

647

:

It's a Korean melon.

648

:

It looks a little like cantaloupe,

but it's not quite as sweet

649

:

and it's got the crunchy.

650

:

It's not nearly as sweet.

651

:

No, it has a crunchy texture of cucumber.

652

:

So it is so.

653

:

Freshing and Delicious and Mars.

654

:

Them.

655

:

I, I know.

656

:

I don't

657

:

Mark: hate them.

658

:

I just don't like them

659

:

Bruce: because

660

:

Mark: they are very vegetal.

661

:

Bruce: Mm.

662

:

I love them.

663

:

It like,

664

:

Mark: and it is like eating a cold

cucumber, but sweeter but orange.

665

:

Bruce: Mm-hmm.

666

:

With a slight hint, hint

of cantaloupe flavor.

667

:

Mark: Yeah.

668

:

It's not my favorite.

669

:

I like the gushy soft,

super sweet cantaloupe.

670

:

'cause that's what I grew up

with, so that's what I like.

671

:

But, um, trying something new.

672

:

Remember that's what we said.

673

:

Well, I have tried it

and, uh, I don't like it.

674

:

So there you go.

675

:

Uh, I, I went outside once

and it scared me so I sign.

676

:

Uh, so, uh, there you go.

677

:

Um, I guess what's making me

happy in food this week is.

678

:

We had friends over for dinner

this last weekend and Bruce

679

:

slow roasted a leg of goat.

680

:

And if you don't know, we wrote

the first ever goat cookbook all

681

:

about goat meat, milk and cheese.

682

:

Several years ago.

683

:

I think that book is still out there.

684

:

Mm-hmm.

685

:

And um, it was the first ever

all goat book written and

686

:

published in North America.

687

:

And we, uh, became very fond of goat.

688

:

Bruce sources goat from a local farm,

so he slow roasted this leg and it

689

:

was really tender and delicious.

690

:

We had it with Tahini sauce and Pita, and

a very simple Palestinian tomato stew.

691

:

He.

692

:

It was a really nice fine meal and we sat

at the table till like after 11 o'clock.

693

:

Mm-hmm.

694

:

It was really nice talking.

695

:

Yeah.

696

:

Yeah.

697

:

It was really nice and

it was a beautiful thing.

698

:

How long did you roast that thing For?

699

:

Six hours.

700

:

Yeah.

701

:

See, a long, long time.

702

:

I gave it.

703

:

I don't have the patience to

get through a podcast, so Okay.

704

:

Bruce: I gave it.

705

:

Palestinian Rub.

706

:

I used raw hannu and garlic and olive oil.

707

:

What is raw?

708

:

Mark (2): Han

709

:

Bruce: Hannu is a blend of spices.

710

:

It means top of the shop, so every

shop in the Middle East, it's

711

:

gonna have their own version of

it, but it's Middle Eastern spices.

712

:

I mixed it with garlic and olive oil.

713

:

I put some sumac in for sourness and

some salt, and I rubbed that in and

714

:

then I shoved it in a covered casserole.

715

:

That's great.

716

:

About six hours

717

:

Mark (2): and kept it out on the grill

so it didn't heat up the kitchen.

718

:

Mm-hmm.

719

:

Which was also really great

720

:

Mark: to keep it on a low grill,

a slow grill, as they say,

721

:

and not heat up the kitchen.

722

:

Okay.

723

:

That's the podcast for this week.

724

:

Thanks for joining us.

725

:

Thanks for being a part of this journey.

726

:

We appreciate your being

with us and we most.

727

:

Appreciate that you connect

with us in some way,

728

:

Bruce: and I've said this

before, I'm gonna say it again.

729

:

No AI here on cooking of Bruce and Mark.

730

:

You know that the internet is full of ai.

731

:

You don't know what's real and what's not.

732

:

Videos, podcasts, everything

you see, you will always get.

733

:

Bruce and Mark here on

cooking of Bruce and Mark.

734

:

No Ai.

All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for Cooking with Bruce and Mark

About the Podcast

Cooking with Bruce and Mark
Fantastic recipes, culinary science, a little judgment, hysterical banter, love and laughs--you know, life.
Join us, Bruce Weinstein and Mark Scarbrough, for weekly episodes all about food, cooking, recipes, and maybe a little marital strife on air. After writing thirty-six cookbooks, we've got countless opinions and ideas on ingredients, recipes, the nature of the cookbook-writing business, and much more. If you've got a passion for food, we also hope to up your game once and a while and to make you laugh most of the time. Come along for the ride! There's plenty of room!

About your host

Profile picture for Mark Scarbrough

Mark Scarbrough

Former lit professor, current cookbook writer, creator of two podcasts, writer of thirty-five (and counting) cookbooks, author of one memoir (coming soon!), married to a chef (my cookbook co-writer, Bruce Weinstein), and with him, the owner of two collies, all in a very rural spot in New England. My life's full and I'm up for more challenges!