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Episode 81

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Published on:

20th Feb 2023

Childhood Food Traditions, Our One-Minute Cooking Tip, An Interview With Kwoklyn Wan, Brown Rice, Salsa Macha & More!

This week, we're talking about food traditions--not cultural, necessarily, although they might be a part of our discussion. Instead, those from your childhood. Ours, too, of course. Why are these food traditions so important to us? Why do they leave such an imprint on us? Is it just nostalgia? Or more?

Join us, veteran cookbook authors Bruce Weinstein & Mark Scarbrough. We've written over three dozen cookbooks including one of our favorites THE KITCHEN SHORTCUT BIBLE.

After we talk about childhood food traditions, we've got a a one-minute cooking tip for making perfect ramen eggs. Bruce interviews celebrity chef Kwoklyn Wan on his book ONE WOK ONE POT. And we tell you what's making us happy in food this week.

Here are the segments for this episode of COOKING WITH BRUCE & MARK:

[01:07] Food traditions from childhood. Why do these leave such a mark on us?

[13:31] Our one-minute cooking tip: how to make perfect ramen eggs.

[15:08] An interview with celebrity chef Kwoklyn Wan, author of ONE POT ONE WOK, all about Chinese comfort food.

[31:36] What’s making us happy in food this week? Salsa macha and perfect brown rice!

Transcript
bruce:

Hey, I'm Bruce Weinstein and this is the Podcast

bruce:

Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

mark:

And I'm Mark Scarbrough, and together with Bruce, as you

mark:

well know, we have written 36 cookbooks under our own Steam.

mark:

We're turning in another right as we speak.

mark:

Due out this November, our latest cookbook is the.

mark:

Instant air fryer Bible.

mark:

And by the way, if you wanna know more about air frying, we are teaching a class

mark:

with Milk Street at the end of May on air frying and kind of a finessing class,

mark:

not a basic intro to air frying, but much more of an up finessing class of in.

mark:

Of air frying,

bruce:

and you can find information about that at our website, Bruce and

bruce:

mark.com, and lots of other things,

mark:

right

mark:

and lots of other things.

mark:

But we're not talking about air frying.

mark:

In this episode of the podcast, we wanna talk about food traditions,

mark:

the importance of food traditions.

mark:

We have our one minute cooking tip.

mark:

Bruce has an interview with Qualin Juan, the author of One Walk.

mark:

Pot and we're gonna talk about what's making us happy in food this week.

mark:

So let's get started.

bruce:

Food traditions are really important to most people.

bruce:

I mean, whether it's a, a thing that you mark a certain event or a certain

bruce:

situation, or you do it all the time, I know I look forward to them and they're

bruce:

really important to us as a culture.

mark:

I do a lot of things besides writing cookbooks with Bruce.

mark:

Um, I teach literary seminars across all kinds of places.

mark:

Um, they're located in New England, but they've all gone virtual, so

mark:

now they're kind of weirdly global.

mark:

And I, I'm I this last fall taught.

mark:

Eight weeks on the Japanese English novelist, Karo.

mark:

And we were at the same time writing a cookbook and I was leading a, this book

mark:

discussion groups on Henry James and I was leading book discussion groups on

mark:

other things, all this kind of crazy virtual literary teaching that I do.

mark:

And at the end of all of these things, this is the whole point of this story,

mark:

is I often plant a dinner party because when I finish everything, I just want

mark:

to take a day in which I get to spend in the kitchen creating a dinner party.

mark:

And you probably, if you listen to this podcast, you've

mark:

probably already heard this.

mark:

I made this really wild proto Iranian dinner.

mark:

So anyway, the point was that I, and I was very creative.

mark:

I pulled recipes apart and re put them together in very deconstructed ways.

mark:

It was all a lot of fun for me, and that is one of my food traditions.

mark:

Yeah.

mark:

Is that I spend.

mark:

You know, a couple days making some grandiose meal for friends after I

mark:

finish a huge set of work projects.

bruce:

I love that your traditions are mostly cooking for friends, cuz there's

bruce:

another one that happens around here.

bruce:

I sing with a Baroque group early, so after the concerts, mark always

bruce:

cooks dinner for all of our friends who come to the concerts and usually

bruce:

it's like four pots of chili.

bruce:

It is.

bruce:

For lasagna.

bruce:

It is, and it's really a nice tradition.

bruce:

I so look forward to that.

mark:

Uh, instant pot chili and it, it's, I can make a vegetarian version,

mark:

a chicken version, a, you know, a beef version, a traditional pork version.

mark:

I mean, I can make various kinds of chilies and so I, I, I, I, I can just

mark:

get all that out on the counter with all the toppings, and it's very easy for

mark:

me to put that together for the dinner.

mark:

That is a food tradition for us too.

mark:

But there are also food traditions, as you well know, that are

mark:

part of your cultural heritage.

mark:

Mm-hmm.

mark:

And your past.

mark:

Idiosyncratic to you, and Bruce has one that I just cannot understand.

bruce:

It's called Noodle Kugel.

bruce:

Gross.

bruce:

And you've even heard me talk about this in the podcast, gross.

bruce:

My grandmother would serve it as a side dish.

bruce:

I know a lot of people have it as dessert, but my grandmother

bruce:

served it as a side dish.

bruce:

She didn't put.

bruce:

Cheese and a no cottage cheese.

bruce:

Oh, it was basically noodles.

bruce:

What's getting worse?

bruce:

Noodles with eggs and oil and sugar and camoo cocktail.

bruce:

Oh, and she'd bake it and serve it like alongside a brisket

bruce:

with sweet and sour meatballs.

mark:

Oh, sweet and sour.

mark:

With no sour . Just sweet meatballs.

mark:

There's no sour in that.

bruce:

When we were at.

bruce:

Mark's family in Missouri for Christmas.

bruce:

We went to a kosher deli one day Mark and I treated everyone over

bruce:

Christmas to a big kosher deli spread.

bruce:

And I got eight giant hunks of Noodle Cougle to put out

bruce:

with the brisket and salons.

bruce:

And guess how many Gentiles ate it?

bruce:

None . I ate them all and I gained 15 pounds on that trip

bruce:

to Christmas . So there you go.

bruce:

I love that.

bruce:

We had Christmas with Noodle Kugel.

bruce:

Mm-hmm.

bruce:

, mark: which is very funny to me.

bruce:

also that basically everybody was like, what is this?

bruce:

They didn't, they wouldn't eat the ruggelach either.

bruce:

I don't know what's wrong with these people.

mark:

Well, no, I did eat ruggelach.

mark:

But no Noodle, kugel is just one of those things that, you know, you know how

mark:

this is, you grew up with something and it's really, really centered to you and

mark:

your traditions, and it's part of a fine childhood memory, and it becomes something

mark:

that's really, uh, crucial to you.

mark:

I, I, I'll give you an example for me.

mark:

I have absolutely no problem eating innards.

mark:

Mm-hmm.

mark:

, and that's because I grew up with grandparents on a farm and

mark:

I was their only grandchild.

mark:

These were German immigrant grandparents, and I was their only

mark:

grandchild, much less being a grandson.

mark:

So of course, for the grandchild, these are the old days for the grandchild.

mark:

If you kill a chicken and you cook a chicken, you don't feed

mark:

the grandchild the breast.

mark:

Legs or the thighs?

mark:

No, no, no.

mark:

That's what you eat.

mark:

You feed your prized grandchild.

mark:

No, the liver, the heart.

mark:

The gizzards.

mark:

The enns.

mark:

And I actually, and this is what's so funny, I actually thought I was special.

mark:

You are?

mark:

Because I ate innards.

bruce:

Well, it is the most nutritious part.

bruce:

Look, that's the part of the chicken that the raccoon's

bruce:

gonna go after if it kills it.

mark:

And I.

mark:

Oh, here we go.

mark:

Aggravating brains.

mark:

I thought that this was all normal and I thought people who

mark:

ate them were sp were special.

mark:

And I didn't know that people grossed out at these things.

mark:

It never occurred to me.

mark:

I, for my third grade birthday party, third grade, I asked my

mark:

mother to make a tongue and she's like, I am not making a tongue.

mark:

for third graders,

bruce:

you want a tongue followed by orange cake.

mark:

I did.

mark:

I . Wanted orange layer.

mark:

But I wanted to start with tongue sandwiches and my mother's like,

mark:

I am not making tongue for your third grade friends who come over,

mark:

this is just not gonna happen.

bruce:

Well, there are food traditions all over the world that some people

bruce:

find delicious and other people are gonna find actually gross.

bruce:

And it's so important, these food traditions that UNESCO from

bruce:

the UN labels, these astronomic traditions as something to be celebr.

bruce:

And safeguarded.

bruce:

And in fact, we talked a few weeks ago in the podcast about UNESCO's

bruce:

adding, um, baguettes to their list and how important baguettes are.

bruce:

But we found a few other things that are on there that I think sound

bruce:

really delicious, but you might not

mark:

Well.

mark:

Uh, yeah.

mark:

Maybe one that UNESCO recognizes is a Jordanian dish that is

mark:

apparently absolutely central.

mark:

Mm-hmm.

mark:

to Jordanian food culture.

mark:

mansaf and mansaf is made with sheep or goat.

mark:

And don't think lamb, think sheep

bruce:

or, and large.

bruce:

Bony bony pieces and we're talking about not Yeah, mark says nuts.

bruce:

Don't think that.

bruce:

Sweet little baby lamb.

bruce:

Mutton.

bruce:

Yeah.

bruce:

An old stinky goat and they're boiled with lots of spices in a yogurt sauce

bruce:

and it's served with rice, sometimes bulgar, um, over a layer of thin bread.

bruce:

It just sounds to me so delicious.

bruce:

I would love to eat this.

mark:

We were.

mark:

When, when Bruce and I used to teach cooking classes on Holland America

mark:

cruise ships, we always had this thing that we would go to various ports

mark:

and uh, Bruce would hire a local guy.

mark:

We never did any of the ships tours.

mark:

Bruce would find through internet connections, through Facebook, et cetera.

mark:

Local guides.

mark:

And so we went to the island of Dominica in the Caribbean, which

mark:

actually I will admit to you that I didn't even know existed.

mark:

So there you go.

mark:

That's how embarrassing I am.

bruce:

So not the Dominican Republic?

bruce:

No, this is the island of Dominica.

bruce:

Dominica.

bruce:

I think it's actually since been destroyed by a hurricane, but it was,

mark:

it's just about was wiped out by a hurricane.

mark:

But anyway, we went to Dominica and Bruce, he local guide and he took us all arena

mark:

and he took us to a cinnamon plantation.

mark:

It.

mark:

It's much fun.

mark:

And, uh, along the way we were talking about food.

mark:

He found out we were good book writers, yada yada.

mark:

We were talking about food and he said that their Easter tradition

mark:

in traditional families was to get a ram, a goat ram and not.

mark:

Not a young

bruce:

baby's sweet tender goat.

mark:

No.

mark:

Get a ram stinky and basically they kill it in the rivers.

mark:

He said so much that the river actually ran red with blood.

mark:

And then, uh, the, in the, that comes out of the town and then they cook it and.

mark:

They look for the stinkiest, smelliest, male

mark:

. bruce: Um, and that's what

mark:

Trust me.

mark:

Exactly.

mark:

Because he said that it, you know, it was vitality, virility, all those things.

mark:

You know what they mean?

mark:

That right.

mark:

That, that, that indicated that for Easter you were kind of entering your new life,

mark:

your new phase of life, and they were looking for this really stinky coat and.

mark:

I, we had just written a goat cookbook, and of course we used all young

mark:

tender baby goat, which is delicious.

mark:

But I kept thinking to myself, wow, I wonder if I could stand this.

mark:

But of course, to this guy in Dominica, this was like a.

mark:

A, a heavily felt family tradition, a cultural tradition to eat this goat and

mark:

I'm may be turning out my nose at it.

mark:

I don't know.

mark:

I try it.

mark:

My hunch is it was super, super hot.

mark:

My ch hunch is that it was spicy beyond belief, but.

mark:

I don't know.

mark:

I try it, but it, it is localized to a food tradition.

bruce:

It is.

bruce:

There's another food tradition from Haiti that it sounds to me so delicious.

bruce:

And if you go, go on YouTube, there are hundreds of people making this Joumou

bruce:

soup, A traditional Haitian pumpkin soup.

bruce:

It's made with vegetables and plantains, with meat, with pasta, with spice spices.

mark:

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

mark:

Wait, wait, wait.

mark:

Pumpkin plantains and pasta.

mark:

This?

mark:

Mm-hmm.

mark:

this.

mark:

Uh, you gonna go plow the back 40 after you ma after you

mark:

eat this thing, holy crow.

bruce:

I mean, it's a celebratory dish, right?

bruce:

And it is deeply rooted in Haitian identity.

bruce:

I mean, originally this was reserved for slave owners, right?

bruce:

Um, and then when Haiti got its independence from France, Haitians

bruce:

took ownership of what was this sort of privileged soup, and it

bruce:

became this national identity.

mark:

It.

mark:

sounds like heavy.

mark:

You need to be in the dead of winter.

mark:

I don't think they have the dead.

mark:

I

bruce:

was wanted to say when is the dead of winter in Haiti.

mark:

I am.

mark:

I don't think they have the dead of winter the way we do in New England.

mark:

Cuz it sounds like something that I would eat in the dead of winter to, you know,

mark:

put on my winter fat so that I could, uh, survive the cold in New England.

mark:

It, I would like to try it.

mark:

I bet it's hot.

bruce:

Oh, I hope it's hot.

bruce:

I hope that Mansaf is also hot.

bruce:

I hope they put a lot of chilies in there with that strong.

bruce:

You

mark:

know, we were, well, this is completely off the subject, but we

mark:

were, we were watching the latest season of fauda, the Israeli show,

mark:

which means chaos and, uh, fauda and it's, it's really horrifically graphic

mark:

and lots of violence and Palestinian Israeli conflict and the whole bit.

mark:

And there's a mo, there's a moment where we are, where one of the

mark:

Israelis is pretending to be an Arab and helping this woman.

mark:

Well, I don't know.

mark:

He's helping her.

mark:

He may be leading her down a dangerous path, . But anyway, he's pretending

mark:

to be Arabic and um, they're on a trip into Lebanon and she doesn't eat.

mark:

Spicy food.

mark:

Clearly this is this long way around say she, they stop it in a local restaurant.

mark:

She tastes the food, she coughs.

mark:

He says, oh, you can't eat spicy.

mark:

He says to her in Arabic, you're a disgrace to your ancestors . And I

mark:

have to tell you that that really took me aback because I thought, is that a

mark:

thing like, like in uh, Jordanian or Palestinian cooking is being really.

mark:

Searingly hot food as things,

bruce:

well think about Aleppo peppers, right?

mark:

I guess.

mark:

Guess so.

mark:

Right?

mark:

Because I don't think of it because I think of, you know, the gentle mezze

mark:

platters that I get at some Middle Eastern restaurant, which are, well,

bruce:

that's also for an American audience.

mark:

Exactly.

mark:

I think it must be for an American audience.

bruce:

Yeah, I think, I think Chili's look, it's desert

bruce:

culture, and I think Chili's are.

bruce:

Always, always present in hot desert culture and probably,

mark:

so we're speaking a little bit out of our depth era and

mark:

we probably should just stop.

mark:

Okay.

mark:

And not get too far out of our own depth.

mark:

So if you have any food traditions that you would like to share with

mark:

us, we would love to see that.

mark:

Mm-hmm.

mark:

, go to our Facebook group cooking with Bruce and Mark.

mark:

You can share your.

mark:

Food traditions there.

mark:

You can weigh in on Noodle Kugel or Fried Chicken Gizzards or anything like that.

mark:

And did you know that we have a newsletter?

mark:

We do indeed have a newsletter.

mark:

It comes out once every week, sometimes once every other week.

mark:

You can sign up for that newsletter by going to our website, Bruce and mark.com.

mark:

There's a sign up form for the newsletter there.

mark:

And let me say in advance, we guarantee a hundred percent no questions to ask.

mark:

Your email will never be sold or used.

mark:

Any other purposes.

mark:

In fact, I use a program that once I put your email into the system for our

mark:

newsletter, I can't even see it anymore.

mark:

Yeah.

mark:

So I, it's hidden from me.

bruce:

And in that newsletter you will get usually a free recipe,

bruce:

sometimes even a knitting patterns.

bruce:

If you don't know, I am a big knitter and you can see all my patterns

bruce:

at my website@bruceweinstein.net.

bruce:

But yes, please go to Bruce and mark.com and sign up for our newsletter.

mark:

Okay, up next, our one minute cooking dip.

mark:

It's about how to make the perfect ramen egg, which was a

mark:

piece of our newsletter recently.

bruce:

The way you make a perfect ramen egg is to boil it for six minutes, and

bruce:

that is right from the refrigerator and six minutes when it hits the water.

bruce:

But the most water is already boiling.

bruce:

The water's already boiling.

bruce:

But the most important thing, the egg should not touch the bottom of the pot.

bruce:

That's the pot.

bruce:

So you gotta put our steamer rack or something on the

bruce:

bottom of the pot to lift.

bruce:

You know those, the eggs off the bottom,

mark:

those vegetable seamers that look like lotus, that open up,

mark:

um, we actually use the silicone.

mark:

Rack that goes in an instant pot and put it in a sauce pan.

mark:

You can buy fancy egg, uh, cookers that lower the eggs into the pot.

mark:

But the most important thing is the egg must not touch the

bruce:

bottom of the sauce pan.

bruce:

But we're not steaming the egg.

bruce:

It is being boiled.

bruce:

So even if you put it in a steamer basket, that steamer basket is submerged.

bruce:

I'm pushing in the pot of boiling water, eggs in their shell.

mark:

And then, then you pull, take it out.

mark:

Well, I mean, come on in.

mark:

Six minutes.

mark:

Six minutes.

mark:

You take it out, put it in.

mark:

Bath of ice water.

mark:

A bowl full of ice.

mark:

Water, yeah.

bruce:

Cold water.

bruce:

Just for about two minutes to stop the cooking.

bruce:

Peel it.

bruce:

And when you break open that, just set white.

bruce:

You are gonna have this gelatinous, slightly runny yolk.

bruce:

That is delicious.

bruce:

Perfect egg for ramen.

bruce:

For even soups.

bruce:

For soups.

bruce:

I even like it just on toast with some avocado or some smoked salmon.

bruce:

So that's he make the perfect egg

mark:

that is

mark:

up next.

mark:

Bruce's interview with Kwoklyn Wan, the author of One Wok, one Pot.

mark:

They're gonna be talking apparently all about Asian Comfort Foods.

bruce:

Today I'm excited to speak with Kwoklyn Wan.

bruce:

He grew up in the kitchen of his family's Chinese Cantonese restaurant

bruce:

in Leicester, which is in the uk.

bruce:

For those of you in the US and aren't familiar with that

bruce:

part of the world and of.

bruce:

He grew up to be a chef, and now between magazines and newspapers, radio shows

bruce:

and TV appearances, there's probably no one in the UK who doesn't know who he is.

bruce:

And his cookbooks, including the Runaway Smash, hit the complete

bruce:

Chinese takeaway book and his upcoming one Walk one pod Klan.

bruce:

One is gaining an international reputation for his Chinese cuisine

bruce:

and for our listeners in the rest of the world, you need to check

bruce:

out his work and his website.

bruce:

Welcome Kwoklyn.

kwoklyn:

Thank you so much.

kwoklyn:

What a great intro.

kwoklyn:

so

bruce:

well, you're so much fun to watch cooking.

bruce:

You make cooking enjoyable.

bruce:

You make it seem like it's a lot of fun, even when we know

bruce:

sometimes it's a lot of work.

bruce:

Um, but mostly you make food that . Looks so delicious.

kwoklyn:

Yeah, except I was, I think it's so important that we cook the

kwoklyn:

food that we really want to eat.

kwoklyn:

Um, I'm a big carbohydrate.

kwoklyn:

I love my rice, I love my noodles.

kwoklyn:

Um, I love sources.

kwoklyn:

Um, obviously I'm a big meat eater, so I like to have meat there, you

kwoklyn:

know, meat and two veg, and then a rice or you know, you noodle dish.

kwoklyn:

So, and I think that comes across, hopefully in the books that saying, well,

kwoklyn:

This is food that you can cook, you know, very simply just in one pot or one walk.

kwoklyn:

Yeah.

kwoklyn:

But it's also gonna taste fantastic.

kwoklyn:

There's gonna be something that you can really get your teeth into and

kwoklyn:

you know you're gonna have that flavor sensation, you're gonna have all those

kwoklyn:

different textures and you know you're gonna feel great at the end of it.

kwoklyn:

So

bruce:

well, and your new book, one Walk one Pot is a little different from your

bruce:

previous books in that you've chosen to focus on dishes here that require

bruce:

only one pot to make them be that a walk or a sauce pan or a rice cooker.

bruce:

But you've also expanded your range of recipes.

bruce:

You're including other Asian cuisines.

bruce:

You're including Japanese, Malaysian, Korean, Thai specialties.

bruce:

What led you in this direction.

kwoklyn:

Well, you know, the, the different types of food is

kwoklyn:

something that we've always cooked within the restaurant and at home.

kwoklyn:

Now, obviously when I was like, you know, when I first wrote my cookbook, my first

kwoklyn:

couple of cookbooks, they very much wanted me to concentrate on the Chinese food

kwoklyn:

that we were serving in the restaurants.

kwoklyn:

And, um, really picking up on the heritage of who I am.

kwoklyn:

Cause obviously I'm a British born Chinese.

kwoklyn:

Uh, my, my dad's from Hong Kong.

kwoklyn:

My mom's from a place called Southampton here in England, . And um, but you

kwoklyn:

know, growing up my dad associated with a large East Asian community.

kwoklyn:

So we had, um, Malaysia, even though there weren't uncles, we had Malaysian uncles.

kwoklyn:

And he would do this fantastic Malaysian style curry for us.

kwoklyn:

And then we had that, this little guy who was from Vietnam, Vietnam.

kwoklyn:

And he would do these Vietnamese dishes for us.

kwoklyn:

So this is food that I remember eating growing up as a child.

kwoklyn:

And this book allowed me now, you know, to sort of start sharing some

kwoklyn:

of those recipes with the people that were buying the books and, you know,

kwoklyn:

so of, you know, east Asian food.

kwoklyn:

As we know, the Chinese have been around for a long time, and as they traded

kwoklyn:

throughout the East Asia through the old Silk Road, different things, you

kwoklyn:

know, so the food is very similar.

kwoklyn:

So obviously there are differences with Malaysia, we're, you know, we're

kwoklyn:

using different, um, aromatics and, you know, especially when we're going

kwoklyn:

to Thailand and we've got lemongrass and other bits and bars, but these

kwoklyn:

things aren't, you know, aren't.

kwoklyn:

Unknown to the Chinese people.

kwoklyn:

Maybe sort of like obviously not so easy to get hold of maybe in Hong Kong and

kwoklyn:

China, but then sort so when we started to, but as you are traveling and this

kwoklyn:

book allows us to travel around East Asia and to try the food, you know, the

kwoklyn:

similar's, east Asian, the right, you know, The main ingredients are gonna

kwoklyn:

be the same, whether that's a protein or a carbohydrate or rice or noodles.

kwoklyn:

And then the flavors, yes, they do change over just slightly, but you

kwoklyn:

know, instinctively when you're eating it, you are eating Asian

kwoklyn:

food or eating chinesey related

bruce:

food.

bruce:

I am in the camp that believes almost anything that you take away from a

bruce:

Chinese restaurant is comfort food.

bruce:

I mean, and the recipes in your new book Push All of My Comfort Food buttons.

bruce:

And you talk in the.

bruce:

In the beginning about wanting to create a simpler way of cooking, and

bruce:

it certainly is that, uh, the recipes are fairly easy and in one pot.

bruce:

But was comfort food a happy side effect or was that something

bruce:

you thought about as well?

kwoklyn:

I think it just comes down to this love of food that I have now for

kwoklyn:

me, growing up in a British, you know, in a Chinese restaurant, being in Britain,

kwoklyn:

Our safe place was always with food.

kwoklyn:

So when we had friends come over, we would cook.

kwoklyn:

When we saw family, we would cook.

kwoklyn:

When there was a birthday party, a christening party, there was food.

kwoklyn:

If we'd come home after school, and it hadn't been a particularly good

kwoklyn:

day, my mom was cooking for us.

kwoklyn:

You know, when we saw, when we sat.

kwoklyn:

down as a family, we ate food together.

kwoklyn:

So food always, you know, for me it, it was all about comfort food, and I think

kwoklyn:

that comes across, obviously in this book in a sense that I'm only showing you

kwoklyn:

food that I really love to cook and eat.

kwoklyn:

Now, why spend this amount of time in a kitchen for cooking something

kwoklyn:

that you don't really want?

kwoklyn:

If you're having a fantastic day, you know, great.

kwoklyn:

Have a nice meal if you're having a rubbish.

kwoklyn:

Well, you can eat the same kind of food and it wouldn't lift your mood.

kwoklyn:

So yeah, I think it wasn't done on purpose, but I think it naturally

kwoklyn:

just happened because I love food and I think you can see that

kwoklyn:

when you're reading the recipes.

bruce:

So, so your love of food comes through in every recipe.

bruce:

I wanna talk about some recipes you offer up.

bruce:

a number of fried rice recipes in your book, and it is something we all love

bruce:

when we go out and when we order in, but fried rice is not something that's

bruce:

terribly easy to get right at home.

bruce:

Do you have any tips or tricks for home cooks when they dive

bruce:

into your fried rice recipes?

kwoklyn:

Hundred percent yes is the answer.

kwoklyn:

Um, you've gotta make sure that you've got a good non-stick pan.

kwoklyn:

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people out there that

kwoklyn:

want to cook authentic Chinese food using authentic walk.

kwoklyn:

Mm-hmm.

kwoklyn:

. Now, the thing is with a carbon steel walk is number one, it has to be well seasoned.

kwoklyn:

So if you've only used it a couple of times, the chances

kwoklyn:

are that rice is going to stick.

kwoklyn:

And the more you use that walk, the more of a it'll, it will, you know, it'll get,

kwoklyn:

so it makes it non-stick if like, . You just want to cook this fried rice at

kwoklyn:

home and you want less fast so there's no mucking about you just want a nice meal.

kwoklyn:

Make sure you've got a good non-stick walk.

kwoklyn:

It could be a good non-stick frying pan.

kwoklyn:

Now they say with non-stick, you don't need the heat.

kwoklyn:

Now I always make sure that my walk is always really hot.

kwoklyn:

Mm-hmm.

kwoklyn:

, once the walk is hot, you add your oil, then you, you can add your eggs and,

kwoklyn:

you know, get, get those mixed through.

kwoklyn:

Then add the rice or the meats and vegetables.

kwoklyn:

The trick is, is not to overcrowd that pan, because soon as that heat

kwoklyn:

comes down in that pan, that's when you start stewing the rice again, and

kwoklyn:

even with a good non-it walk, okay?

kwoklyn:

It might not stick, but it won't have that flavor.

kwoklyn:

The trick is that we're trying to toast the rice or even slightly burn the rice.

kwoklyn:

Now this technique is called wa hay or the breath of the walk, and that's what gives

kwoklyn:

that rice, that distinct fried flavor.

kwoklyn:

So if you can do that and don't crowd the pan.

kwoklyn:

So if you are cooking for three or four people, even maybe a family of

kwoklyn:

six, just do your rice in stages.

kwoklyn:

Maybe cook it and cook enough or two cook, put that to one side, then do

kwoklyn:

another portion, and at the very end bring it all together and you'll still

kwoklyn:

have that lovely fried rice taste.

bruce:

I think that's great advice and something that scares some people the

bruce:

idea of cooking in batches, but it does give you the absolute best results.

bruce:

I agree with you.

bruce:

You cannot crowd that walk.

bruce:

There's another recipe that really caught my eye, and when I think of Chinese lemon

bruce:

chicken, I think of fried crunchy chicken that's covered in a tangy sauce, but in

bruce:

your book, you offer up a one pot version of lemon chicken that sounds just as

bruce:

delicious, but seems so incredibly easy.

bruce:

Tell me about the dish.

kwoklyn:

So yes, I think we, when I think of Lemon chicken, especially growing up

kwoklyn:

in a Cantonese restaurant, you think of the chicken in the cornflower batter.

kwoklyn:

It's really crispy.

kwoklyn:

You've got this lemon sauce drizzled over the top of it.

kwoklyn:

But then when we look back at how this dish may have been created, it

kwoklyn:

would've been cooked in a clay pot.

kwoklyn:

It would've been cooked just, you know, on a open fire.

kwoklyn:

Cause you.

kwoklyn:

So I, I wanted to create the word said, said I wanted to create this dish.

kwoklyn:

I did some research and there were lemon chicken dishes out there

kwoklyn:

where it's all cooked together.

kwoklyn:

You know, you are getting the tanginess, you're getting the honey,

kwoklyn:

so you're getting the sweetness.

kwoklyn:

You are getting all of these flavors all locked into the chicken as it's cooking.

kwoklyn:

So the only thing I guess we're missing is a little bit of texture.

kwoklyn:

Cause obviously we're not getting that cause we're not frying the chicken.

kwoklyn:

Mm-hmm.

kwoklyn:

. But as far as flavors go, we've got sweet, we've got sour, we've got tangy, we've

kwoklyn:

got all of these flavors happening and.

kwoklyn:

If you really wanted to cheat and you want a little bit of crunch, you

kwoklyn:

could maybe add some fried one ton skins or something at the very end,

kwoklyn:

and you've got all the, you've got that crunchy, crunchy texture again.

kwoklyn:

So just have a portion of those next to it as you're eating the dish, and

kwoklyn:

you're gonna have that very similar mouth sensation when you're eating

kwoklyn:

like a regular Cantonese lemon chicken.

bruce:

Your version of this is so easy, as you say in the.

bruce:

almost seems to cook itself.

bruce:

Who doesn't want a dish that does that?

kwoklyn:

Yeah, and it's all about, you know, creating these dishes that we

kwoklyn:

can go home, we can throw all these things into the pan in different stages.

kwoklyn:

So some of the recipes you have to fry the chicken off first and then, you

kwoklyn:

know, and then you braze it afterwards.

kwoklyn:

You create a sauce.

kwoklyn:

But at, at that stage, that's when you can leave it to blip away on

kwoklyn:

the stove, go and grab a shower.

kwoklyn:

If you just just, and you can come back and you can have this fantastic

kwoklyn:

meal without all of that washing up.

kwoklyn:

You've literally just got one pop to wash

bruce:

here in the us.

bruce:

Brisket is a cut of meat.

bruce:

That so many Americans think is best when smoked.

bruce:

And in your book you offer up a very interesting and surprising brisket.

bruce:

Rendang.

bruce:

Is brisket a common cut in Southeast Asian cuisine?

bruce:

And what inspired you to take it and pair it with these over the top curry flavors?

kwoklyn:

So, um, obviously the Asian people are very good at

kwoklyn:

using nose to tail cooking, right?

kwoklyn:

So they use every single part of the animal.

kwoklyn:

So, you know, don't me wrong, if it's a nice fill, nice piece of fill at

kwoklyn:

steak, that's gonna, you know, a quick flash on the barbecue in the pan and

kwoklyn:

it's done in a matter of mere minutes.

kwoklyn:

When you've got something that needs that time, it needs the love to cook.

kwoklyn:

Brisket is one of those, you know, it's a bit more fibro.

kwoklyn:

You know, when you smoke it, you smoke it for a long time.

kwoklyn:

Therefore, when you, when you, you know, when you're gonna eat

kwoklyn:

it, it literally falls apart.

kwoklyn:

This rendang recipe is exactly the same, so obviously, okay,

kwoklyn:

we're adding ourian flavors.

kwoklyn:

You've got this lovely sauce that comes with it, and it's been cooked

kwoklyn:

so slowly that when you do eat it, it falls apart in the mouth.

kwoklyn:

But you've got that lemongrass, you've got all those East Asian sort of like, you

kwoklyn:

know, these flavors coming through, and it just, it makes, I think a, a, a wonderful.

kwoklyn:

Wonderful Rendang Curry.

bruce:

So I wanna talk about rice again for a second because every rice

bruce:

recipe in your book, whether it's your Cantonese rice cooker chicken, or your

bruce:

black bean and pork rib rice, which sounds to die for, you always call for

bruce:

rinsing and soaking rice, and this step.

bruce:

Makes a lot of cooks in the US raise an eyebrow.

bruce:

Why is rinsing or soaking the rices important for success in these recipes?

kwoklyn:

So in these particular recipes, what we want to try and do

kwoklyn:

is wash away some of that starch.

kwoklyn:

So rice is naturally starchy, so when you cook it, it becomes really sticky.

kwoklyn:

Now that stickiness is quite nice.

kwoklyn:

It means eating it with a para.

kwoklyn:

Paras is really easy cause you can pick it up in a big clump, but we don't

kwoklyn:

want it to a point of where it just clumps together and it's just like a.

kwoklyn:

So therefore, if we wash the rice at least two or three times in Luke warm

kwoklyn:

water and then tip away this water, we're gonna get rid of some of that starch.

kwoklyn:

Now also as well, because we're cooking the rice with the stock,

kwoklyn:

with the meat on top, we soak the rice first to make sure that we don't

kwoklyn:

end up with bony pieces of rice.

kwoklyn:

Cause no one likes to, you know, put a mouth, you know, some rice into the mouth,

kwoklyn:

and then it's a little bit gritty inside.

kwoklyn:

That's because it's not soaked, it's not been cooked long

kwoklyn:

enough, or it's not had enough.

kwoklyn:

So we can obviously trick this by, by obviously soaking the rice first,

kwoklyn:

and then when we cook the meat on top, literally within 25, 30 minutes

kwoklyn:

we've got this fantastic dish.

kwoklyn:

And you mentioned about the Cantonese one, especially if you cook it

kwoklyn:

in the clay pot, you can burn the bottom of the rice a little bit.

kwoklyn:

Cause now you've got those textures we were talking about.

kwoklyn:

We're missing in the lemon chicken.

kwoklyn:

So we've got the soft rice and we've got the juicy chicken.

kwoklyn:

But now we've got the burnt rice on the bottom, which is like a rice crisp, you

kwoklyn:

know, or a chip as you call it in the.

kwoklyn:

Yeah, and it's nice and crunchy that you're eating, that you are

kwoklyn:

eating that with the dish and it just, again, it's just all those

kwoklyn:

flavors, all of those textures, all, all in one pop to be able to get.

bruce:

Different textures in one pot is incredible.

bruce:

So, uh, bravo for being, creating that for us.

kwoklyn:

No, I'd like, I'd like to say that it was, these are, all of,

kwoklyn:

these are all original recipes, but this is all about heritage cooking.

kwoklyn:

So if you think about, I've gotta think about where my generations have come from.

kwoklyn:

You know, Chinese civilization is what, roughly four, 5,000 years old.

kwoklyn:

So these techniques have been perfected over centuries, over millennia.

kwoklyn:

And all I've done is like, put my little twist on it.

bruce:

Well, fabulous.

bruce:

So you clearly love food and it's, it's wonderful.

bruce:

Isn't it wonderful to have a career based on something that Oh yeah.

bruce:

You loves so much.

bruce:

So when it's just you at home, what do you cook for the family?

kwoklyn:

Again, I love rice, I love noodles.

kwoklyn:

Um, so, you know, for me a nice big bowl of noodles with a nice

kwoklyn:

clear broth and maybe some one tons or some fish cake running through

kwoklyn:

it is kinda like my comfort food.

kwoklyn:

It's the food that I remember eating, not only in the restaurant growing

kwoklyn:

up, but also on the dinner table when my, even now when we come over and

kwoklyn:

have food with my mom and dad, my dad will do like noodles for everybody.

kwoklyn:

Mm-hmm.

kwoklyn:

. And it's one of those dishes we can all sit and eat together, you know,

kwoklyn:

like, and there's quite a lot of.

kwoklyn:

In a sense, cause when you're doing noodles for that many people, because,

kwoklyn:

because the noodles have to be cooked fresh for each individual person, you do

kwoklyn:

tend to sit in sittings, . So the kids get served first and by the time you,

kwoklyn:

the kids are eaten, our dinner's ready.

kwoklyn:

But you can't beat that freshness, that cleanness, that sort of like, you know,

kwoklyn:

and it, for us it's just, you know, it's.

kwoklyn:

. It's our heritage.

kwoklyn:

It's, it's, you know, the food that I know, it's the food that my dad ate

kwoklyn:

growing up because, you know, he, he lived in a little place called Chat

kwoklyn:

cot or Tachu Hang in Hong Kong, and his first job was in a one ton noodle shop.

kwoklyn:

So these, so we go back, my dad's in his seventies now, so he's now

kwoklyn:

passing over 70 years later, the dishes that he learned to cook in

kwoklyn:

this little restaurant in Hong Kong.

kwoklyn:

So you can't beat that, I don't think.

bruce:

No, it sounds absolutely amazing.

bruce:

Lan Juan, thank you for sharing your passion today with me with

bruce:

your food, and thank you for this new book, one Walk, one Pot.

bruce:

It is such fabulous comfort food.

bruce:

Great.

bruce:

Good luck with it.

bruce:

And thanks for spending some time with me this morning.

kwoklyn:

My absolute pleasure.

kwoklyn:

And thank you so much for having me.

mark:

So this guy is clearly a big celebrity.

mark:

In where he

bruce:

is from, right?

bruce:

Yeah, he is.

bruce:

He is really well known.

bruce:

His guy is big on tv.

bruce:

It's so funny.

bruce:

Yeah, he's on our little podcast and it's not his first book and I love this

bruce:

book and I even love the cover of it.

bruce:

It's, it actually silly.

bruce:

It has like a little Dr.

bruce:

Seuss quality about the typeface and all, but the book

bruce:

is so full of delicious stuff.

mark:

So before we get to the last segment, what spanking is

mark:

happening through this week?

mark:

Let me say that it would be great if you could subscribe to this podcast.

mark:

If you could rate it on any platform that you're on, you can drop down

mark:

and give it a rating where there's Spotify, apple Podcast, Google

mark:

Podcast in your home country.

mark:

You can rate it there and.

mark:

Any country that you in that where you're listening to this podcast,

mark:

including the United States, of course you can write a review on

mark:

Google Podcasts, on Apple podcasts.

mark:

You can't on Spotify, but on other platforms you can write a review

mark:

on Audible, you can write a review if you would write a review just.

mark:

Nice podcast.

mark:

That would do wonders for us since we are unsupported doing this

mark:

just for the love of doing us.

mark:

Okay, so moving on.

mark:

What's making us happy in food this week?

bruce:

Salsa matcha.

bruce:

Oh, that is making me happy.

bruce:

So if you don't know what that is, it is a Mexican chili spice paste.

bruce:

Not unlike Chinese.

bruce:

Chili crisp, but it's Mexican with mini more.

bruce:

They're nuts and there's nuts in its, and lots, lots of knots.

bruce:

Mark just made a batch because we have a dinner party coming up where I'm doing

bruce:

a goat bia and I'm doing refried beans and I'm doing a deconstructed guacamole

bruce:

with a pan cutta, and I'm doing a.

bruce:

Tongue tacos and heart and interesting stuff.

bruce:

Mark made this great salsa mash with pistachios and walnuts and

bruce:

pepitas and anchos and Marita.

bruce:

Chipotles and chili's de arbole and lots and

mark:

lots of garlic and a little brown sugar and vinegar,

mark:

and you cook it very lightly.

mark:

You make, you cook it in oil and then you, uh, puree it all.

mark:

It, I, there are a hundred thousand different ways to make salsa match.

mark:

I basically took a recipe from the New York Times, a recipe from

mark:

Rick Payless and a recipe from the Washington Post, and I kind of fused

mark:

them up and made my own version.

mark:

You did good.

mark:

Um, it's, it is so, Super hot, but it, it should be good for what the

mark:

purpose of the dinner party are.

mark:

I understand it's really great on scrambled eggs.

mark:

Mm-hmm.

mark:

, it's really great on fried eggs.

mark:

I understand that it's really great to just put on top of rice.

mark:

Um, we shall see what we do with salsa matcha and how we survive with it.

mark:

Okay.

mark:

So what's making me happy?

mark:

Yeah, what's making you happy in food this week?

mark:

I think that what's making me happy in food this week is medium grain brown rice.

mark:

I love.

mark:

Brown rice and I brown sushi rice.

mark:

I will confess that I am a fan of brown rice and medium grain,

mark:

like AEO rice, medium grain rice is just a delicious thing.

mark:

It's, it's nutty, but it's chewy.

mark:

I not as big a fan of brown long grain rice as I am.

mark:

I agree with you, medium and short grain rice.

mark:

I agree with you that if there's something about the stickiness, Helps mitigate

mark:

the dryness of brown rice, uh, somehow.

bruce:

But the flavor's so good.

bruce:

You have all that germ in there, just like you have with the

bruce:

Hago rice we've talked about.

bruce:

Yeah.

bruce:

Yeah.

bruce:

But you do get all the extra fiber and texture of the brand.

bruce:

Yep.

mark:

And I will confess that I make it in a rice cooker.

mark:

I love our rice cooker.

mark:

It's easy to do.

mark:

I know a lot of people are very resistant to rice cookers cuz A, they

mark:

don't need another, uh, appliance.

mark:

Yes, they do.

mark:

Mm-hmm.

mark:

B they say I make it perfect on the stove.

mark:

Mm-hmm.

mark:

. I do too.

mark:

I know how to make brown rice on the stove.

mark:

Thank you.

mark:

I've been in this career a long time.

mark:

I know how to wait.

mark:

White rice on the stove.

mark:

Thank you.

mark:

I've been in this griller a long time.

mark:

I just rather make it in a rice cooker.

mark:

It's so easy.

mark:

I just push the button and walk away.

mark:

Love my rice cooker.

mark:

Yeah.

mark:

I can't love it more and it keeps it nice and hot.

mark:

So I make it when I get up in the morning, if I'm gonna have brown rice for lunch, I.

mark:

When I get up in the morning and then it just sits there warming all day, you know,

mark:

with the lid closed on the ice cooker.

mark:

So I don't have to worry about it at all.

mark:

It's ready when I'm ready for it, so I love it.

mark:

It's a great thing.

mark:

All right, that's our podcast this week.

mark:

Thanks for listening.

mark:

Thanks for being a part of it.

mark:

Again, newsletter, subscribe it, you know the whole deal.

mark:

Do all those things and thank you.

mark:

For listening to this episode of Cooking with Bruce and Mark,

bruce:

and download an episode next week and the week after and

bruce:

the week after that and go back.

bruce:

There's a great back list.

bruce:

You can download episodes for the last three years so you can listen to cooking

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About the Podcast

Cooking with Bruce and Mark
Fantastic recipes, culinary science, a little judgment, hysterical banter, love and laughs--you know, life.
Join us, Bruce Weinstein and Mark Scarbrough, for weekly episodes all about food, cooking, recipes, and maybe a little marital strife on air. After writing thirty-six cookbooks, we've got countless opinions and ideas on ingredients, recipes, the nature of the cookbook-writing business, and much more. If you've got a passion for food, we also hope to up your game once and a while and to make you laugh most of the time. Come along for the ride! There's plenty of room!

About your host

Profile picture for Mark Scarbrough

Mark Scarbrough

Former lit professor, current cookbook writer, creator of two podcasts, writer of thirty-five (and counting) cookbooks, author of one memoir (coming soon!), married to a chef (my cookbook co-writer, Bruce Weinstein), and with him, the owner of two collies, all in a very rural spot in New England. My life's full and I'm up for more challenges!