Keeping Purchased Condiments, Our One-Minute Cooking Tip, An Interview with Lauren Chitwood, Haiga Rice, Coconut Water & More!

Bruce: 00:00:01

Hey, I'm Bruce Weinstein and this is the Podcast

Bruce: 00:00:03

Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

Mark: 00:00:04

And I'm Mark Scarborough.

Mark: 00:00:05

And together with Bruce, we have written three dozen cookbooks are

Mark: 00:00:08

currently writing yet another, but our latest published and out on the

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market is the Instant Air Fryer Bible.

Mark: 00:00:14

Don't forget, there's also the Instant Pop Bible and the Essential

Mark: 00:00:19

Air Fryer Cookbook, the only cookbook that sizes out every recipe.

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Every size of air fryer on the market.

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That was a task.

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Wow.

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A hill to climb.

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But we're not gonna talk about any of those books in

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this episode of our podcast.

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Instead, we're gonna answer the long anticipated question,

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how long do pickles last?

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That's really, uh, quite a question right there, and I'm sure being

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asked by millions of people.

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Oh, we've got a one minute cooking chip.

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Bruce has got an interview with Lauren Chitwood.

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She's the ceo.

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Spiritless.

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Oh, we wanna talk about that.

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And we're gonna talk about what's making us happy in food this week.

Bruce: 00:00:57

How long do pickles last?

Bruce: 00:00:59

It's a good question, right?

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One that Epicurious answered in a rather lengthy piece entitled,

Bruce: 00:01:05

how Long Do Pickles Last?

Bruce: 00:01:07

Mm-hmm.

Bruce: 00:01:08

. I think that's actually really important cuz we fill our refrigerators

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with all sorts of condiments.

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Pickles are condiments and we fill our fridge with these things and

Bruce: 00:01:16

they stay in there for months.

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Sometimes years and we still need to,

Mark: 00:01:20

okay.

Mark: 00:01:20

There's no pickle that has ever stayed in my refrigerator for years

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because I don't believe there's ever enough vinegar in the world.

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But I know people do do these kind of things and we, we, Bruce and

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I go through pickles and pickled jalapeno rings like you can't believe.

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But still, nonetheless, I know that there are a lot of pickled and fermented

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ingredients like kimchi, right, that stick around a long time in people's

Bruce: 00:01:44

refrigerators.

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They do.

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We went to our fridge after I saw this article online, and I found a ton of

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pickles of all varieties in there.

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None of them were open this year, so now we know they've been

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open for at least 6, 7, 8 weeks.

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And so the question is how long are they gonna last?

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And part of that has to do with whether they're shelf stable

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pickles or refrigerator pickles.

Bruce: 00:02:06

So, We need to talk about what the difference between those ones.

Mark: 00:02:08

Well, you know, so shelf stable, just to say shell stable pickles

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are the pickles that you see on the shelves in the supermarket, not

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in a refrigerator case, versus the ones you see in a refrigerator case.

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That's just basically the difference.

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So you, for example, most of the time when you buy kimchi, you are gonna find it.

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In a refrigerator case.

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Now, apparently the kimchi at H Mart, which I love more than I can say, the

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country radish kimchi, is shelf stable because it's always out on the shelves.

Mark: 00:02:36

Now, I don't know if that's because they sell it fast enough

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that it can sit out there.

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Every other kimchi I've ever seen is in a refrigerator case.

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So I, I'm not sure on that one, I have to tell you.

Mark: 00:02:47

But nonetheless, I can tell you that the, that the kimchi that I love at

Mark: 00:02:52

H Mart is actually out on a shelf.

Bruce: 00:02:54

That's really scary.

Bruce: 00:02:56

Uh,

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. Mark: Well, it's not scary cuz I love

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open those country radish kimchi from.

Bruce: 00:03:03

They do bubble.

Bruce: 00:03:05

It does instant, instantly bubble.

Bruce: 00:03:07

Well, it's a live food.

Bruce: 00:03:08

Yeah.

Bruce: 00:03:08

I mean, it is absolutely a live food.

Bruce: 00:03:10

So here's the thing, every pickle that is shelf stable has a used by date on it.

Bruce: 00:03:17

And that's very misleading because those used by dates can be a year

Bruce: 00:03:21

or even two down the road, right?

Bruce: 00:03:23

But that used by date really should.

Bruce: 00:03:27

open by date because once you open it, now you're working on the same philosophy as

Bruce: 00:03:33

a fresh pickle, which only lasts about two months most before it starts to go bad.

Mark: 00:03:39

I think that that's right.

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I think you, if you see that date on there, that's the date at which, as

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Bruce said, you have to open up, but then two months you are safe, but

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there are signs that you're not safe.

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They are.

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Some of those signs include mold.

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Don't eat pickles with mold on it.

Bruce: 00:04:01

Oh God.

Bruce: 00:04:01

Don't eat anything with mold on it.

Bruce: 00:04:03

Mold mean cheese.

Bruce: 00:04:05

Oh, that's edible mold.

Bruce: 00:04:06

That's no.

Mark: 00:04:06

Well, actually hard cheese, but you know, even semi firm

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cheese, like semi firm mozzarella or cheddar if it's got mold on it,

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the old thing was always cut it off.

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Those mold fibers can, in fact, oh, they can look far deeper than you think.

Bruce: 00:04:21

I thought you were talking like the mold on the outside of

Bruce: 00:04:23

BRI that's supposed to be there.

Bruce: 00:04:25

Right.

Bruce: 00:04:25

Okay.

Bruce: 00:04:25

That's different.

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That, that is very different.

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That's very different.

Bruce: 00:04:27

Um, if they're soft and mushy.

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Pickles are not supposed to be soft and mushy.

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So if that's the case, throw them out.

Mark: 00:04:35

Right?

Mark: 00:04:35

And if they have a terribly bad smell, you must throw them out.

Mark: 00:04:39

And I should tell you that Bruce makes kimchi every summer, and there's a

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recipe on our YouTube channel for Bruce making kimchi, and it's delicious.

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But this last summer, a lot of things went on in our lives and we were not

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able to get through the vat of kimchi.

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He makes every summer.

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I mean, he literally makes it five gallon bucket.

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Yeah, a vat.

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And we do go through it.

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I love kimchi, but we do go through it.

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But this summer we didn't get through it and.

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Hmm.

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It started to smell bad and we thought, well, you know, kimchi,

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it's fermented, blah, blah, blah.

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And then it really started to smell bad.

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And somehow being the idiot food writers we are, we still ate it

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and we both got really sick on it.

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So, uh, you know, if it smells bad, by and large, it is bad.

Mark: 00:05:26

It is.

Bruce: 00:05:26

The other thing is bulging.

Bruce: 00:05:28

Yep.

Bruce: 00:05:28

Now it is true things like kimchi and sauerkraut, if they have live

Bruce: 00:05:32

active cultures will produce gas.

Bruce: 00:05:34

And you may have a little bulge, but basically, especially in

Bruce: 00:05:37

shelf stable pickles, if your lid is bulging, get rid of it.

Bruce: 00:05:41

Especially in anything that doesn't have any live bacteria going on.

Mark: 00:05:46

And this goes for a kimchi two.

Mark: 00:05:47

Um, if it's fizzy, be careful and not, we're not talking about fizzy

Mark: 00:05:51

when you first open it, but if you open it and it fizzes, okay, fine.

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It's a.

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Bacterial product, great.

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But then if a month later you open it and it's fizzing

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noticeably, now you're in danger.

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You have broken the seal on it, so be careful.

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This is not a good moment.

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Fizzy pickles, fizzy mustards, all of that are re fizzy.

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Chow chow.

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If you're from the south, I know what that is.

Mark: 00:06:19

Fizzy, chutneys, no good.

Mark: 00:06:23

Do not want fizz under any circumstances.

Mark: 00:06:27

So that's basically bacterial byproduct.

Mark: 00:06:30

Things are growing in there, and I know you think how can something grow

Mark: 00:06:33

in mustard given the amount of salt in it or the amount of acid in it?

Mark: 00:06:37

Trust me, things can grow.

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I have seen.

Mark: 00:06:42

Mustard molded.

Bruce: 00:06:43

Oh, it can.

Bruce: 00:06:43

Absolutely.

Bruce: 00:06:44

So let's talk about mustard.

Mark: 00:06:45

In fact, can I just say, yeah, that, uh, which I never say,

Mark: 00:06:49

but this has nothing to do with any fermented or pickled project.

Mark: 00:06:53

But I can tell you because of personal experience of actually hunting for

Mark: 00:06:56

houses once that I have actually seen peeps mold, and I would tell

Mark: 00:07:00

you that, that there's sugar mold.

Mark: 00:07:02

I would tell you that peeps cannot mold, they're too chemical to mold.

Mark: 00:07:06

And we looked at a house once when we were moving to New England in which

Mark: 00:07:08

there were boxes and boxes of moldy.

Mark: 00:07:11

Peeps

Bruce: 00:07:12

on the dining table when Mark says he's talking,

Bruce: 00:07:13

there was at least 500 boxes.

Bruce: 00:07:16

This is a hoarding house,

Mark: 00:07:17

a complete hoarding house that she was trying to get rid of.

Mark: 00:07:19

And I can tell you peeps do mold.

Mark: 00:07:22

So be careful.

Bruce: 00:07:23

Let's Yeah, and do be careful.

Bruce: 00:07:25

So let's talk about mustard, ketchup, and other condiments that we tend to open

Bruce: 00:07:29

and just leave in the fridge for months.

Bruce: 00:07:32

Look, we wouldn't do that with a jar.

Bruce: 00:07:34

Pasta sauce, right?

Bruce: 00:07:34

No.

Bruce: 00:07:34

If I opened a jar of marinara, nope.

Bruce: 00:07:36

And I used half of it for a recipe, I put the other half in the.

Bruce: 00:07:40

I'm not going to eat that sauce two weeks later.

Bruce: 00:07:42

Yeah.

Bruce: 00:07:42

I know.

Bruce: 00:07:43

It's gonna be not healthy even if I don't see mold.

Bruce: 00:07:46

So why do we do that?

Bruce: 00:07:47

And we should with ketchup and mustard.

Mark: 00:07:49

And, and, well, we should also add, because this, you brought up the, the,

Mark: 00:07:52

the pasta thing, um, discoloration around the rim or discoloration around the.

Mark: 00:07:57

Outside of the, uh, uh, the ingredients inside, you know, right

Mark: 00:08:00

on the surface is also a bad sign.

Bruce: 00:08:03

If there's dried and rusty stuff around when you open the lid.

Bruce: 00:08:06

Yeah.

Bruce: 00:08:06

Or look on the inside of the lid if, mm-hmm.

Bruce: 00:08:09

, maybe you don't see mold down in your mustard, but if there's mold

Bruce: 00:08:12

on the inside of the lid mm-hmm.

Bruce: 00:08:13

chuck it.

Bruce: 00:08:14

So, okay.

Bruce: 00:08:14

Get rid of it.

Bruce: 00:08:15

The U S D A actually has a rundown on what they recommend in terms of how

Bruce: 00:08:20

long you should keep things in the fridge and ketchup with so many of

Bruce: 00:08:24

us open and keep in there for months.

Bruce: 00:08:26

Other sweet tomato-based condiments, like chili sauce.

Bruce: 00:08:30

Those actually can stay six months without any problem.

Mark: 00:08:33

And we're talking about for, for anybody who is crazy enough to

Mark: 00:08:36

make their own ketchup, we're talking about industrial produced ketchup.

Mark: 00:08:38

Mm-hmm.

Mark: 00:08:39

homemade ketchup lasts much shorter.

Mark: 00:08:42

It is not got the shelf life that industrial ketchup has.

Mark: 00:08:45

Nope.

Mark: 00:08:46

So it'd be very careful if you can't catch up in the summer.

Mark: 00:08:49

Be very careful After you open it, give it about a.

Mark: 00:08:52

In the fridge and then get rid of it.

Bruce: 00:08:54

Chutney.

Bruce: 00:08:54

If you have like mango chutney or rhubarb chutney or anything like that according

Bruce: 00:08:58

to the U S D A, give it two months.

Bruce: 00:09:00

And again, we're not talking about homemade chutneys.

Bruce: 00:09:02

Yep.

Bruce: 00:09:02

We're talking about process jarred, chutneys, and pickles.

Mark: 00:09:05

Right.

Mark: 00:09:05

And, and I don't mean pickles like dill pickles, I mean pickles.

Mark: 00:09:08

As in East Indian pickles like lime pickle.

Bruce: 00:09:10

Yeah, those I would put all in the chutney category.

Bruce: 00:09:12

Yeah.

Bruce: 00:09:12

And as Mark said, mustards, whoever sees the mold well, it's the

Bruce: 00:09:17

interesting thing, the U S D A gives them the longest refrigerator shelf

Bruce: 00:09:21

life that you can keep most mustards open for a year in your fridge.

Mark: 00:09:25

yeah and olives.

Mark: 00:09:26

If you open the container from the supermarket or if you buy them

Mark: 00:09:30

in a jar or can, we're talking about two weeks once it's open.

Mark: 00:09:34

Mm-hmm.

Mark: 00:09:34

be very careful about all these products because they can cause

Mark: 00:09:38

problems and you don't want any of the problems that they cause.

Mark: 00:09:42

Remember, uh, used by date is really probably the open by date.

Mark: 00:09:46

Mm-hmm.

Mark: 00:09:47

. But once you open it, now everything is ticking.

Mark: 00:09:50

Now the clock has started ticking.

Mark: 00:09:51

Now that said, there.

Mark: 00:09:54

Places where one does find a jar of pickles, I'm thinking about cleaning out

Mark: 00:09:59

my parents' house two years ago, , and one does find a jar of pickles in the

Mark: 00:10:03

pantry that the open by date or used by date is two and three years old.

Mark: 00:10:09

Let me just say I chucked those.

Bruce: 00:10:11

Good idea, even if it's not bulging.

Mark: 00:10:13

I didn't touch 'em because they had been in my parents'

Mark: 00:10:17

pantry for so long that I didn't.

Mark: 00:10:20

I know this seems wasteful.

Mark: 00:10:22

And listen, none of us.

Mark: 00:10:23

Food waste, but I assure you, a little food waste is better

Mark: 00:10:28

than a lot of food poisoning.

Mark: 00:10:32

Before we get to our next segment on the podcast, let me

Mark: 00:10:35

say that we have a newsletter.

Mark: 00:10:37

Would you like to be a part of that newsletter?

Mark: 00:10:39

There's all kinds of.

Mark: 00:10:41

Tips and tricks that come out in the newsletter.

Mark: 00:10:43

It's got some heartfelt bits about our lives.

Mark: 00:10:47

It's got knitting patterns.

Mark: 00:10:48

It comes out, I don't know, let's say it comes out every once in a

Mark: 00:10:51

while, but if you'd like to have a part of that newsletter, there's a

Mark: 00:10:54

recent one about grief and cooking.

Mark: 00:10:56

There's a recent one about Bruce's knitting projects if you'd like to be.

Mark: 00:11:00

On that mailing list, you can go to our website, Bruce and mark.com.

Mark: 00:11:04

Drop down on the landing page, the page you get to first.

Mark: 00:11:07

You'll see sign up for the newsletter.

Mark: 00:11:09

You can there.

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We have to take your name, your last name, and your first name,

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The emails go out blind copied, so no one else can ever see them.

Mark: 00:11:26

So if you'd like to be a part of that, go to bria mark.com.

Mark: 00:11:32

Okay, up next, segment two, our one minute cooking tip.

Bruce: 00:11:36

Here is an easy, quick.

Bruce: 00:11:39

Pasta idea, and Mark and I like to call this calendar cooking

Bruce: 00:11:43

and this idea we published in our book, the Kitchen Shortcut Bible.

Bruce: 00:11:47

So you take a calendar and put it in your sink.

Bruce: 00:11:49

Hmm.

Bruce: 00:11:49

Then you put in quick cooking vegetables, like little cauliflower

Bruce: 00:11:53

flour rats, sliced string beans, shredded carrots, thinly cut zucchini.

Bruce: 00:11:57

You put these quick cooking vegetables in the calendar, in the sink.

Bruce: 00:12:01

Mm-hmm.

Bruce: 00:12:01

, then cook your spaghetti or other pasta as usual, but use a.

Bruce: 00:12:06

very large pot.

Bruce: 00:12:07

Cause you want a lot of boiling water.

Bruce: 00:12:09

Large is the key.

Bruce: 00:12:10

When the pasta's done drain the pasta over those veggies, that boiling

Bruce: 00:12:15

water going over will blanch them.

Bruce: 00:12:17

Mm-hmm.

Bruce: 00:12:17

let the hot pasta sit in them for about a minute and those veggies will be cooked.

Bruce: 00:12:22

It'll be ready to be tossed up with a sauce of your choice pesa,

Bruce: 00:12:25

or even melted butter and cheese.

Mark: 00:12:30

Before we get to the big interview in this podcast, let's

Mark: 00:12:33

say, it would be great if you would subscribe, if you would rate it, we

Mark: 00:12:36

are unsponsored, so you, which means we can talk about pickles all we want.

Mark: 00:12:41

So if you could rate it, that would really help us in the

Mark: 00:12:44

analytics and help us keep going.

Mark: 00:12:46

You can find that rating on Spotify, on Google Podcasts, on Apple Podcast

Mark: 00:12:50

where it's found and if you go to the trouble and drop down the

Mark: 00:12:53

page, you can even write a review.

Mark: 00:12:54

And even something as simple as NICE podcasts does wonders for us.

Mark: 00:12:59

Again for being on this journey with us.

Mark: 00:13:01

Okay, up next, Bruce's interview with Lauren Chitwood.

Mark: 00:13:05

She's is the c e O of Spiritless, a, maker of alcohol-free bourbon and tequila.

Bruce: 00:13:13

Today I'm lucky enough to be talking with Bourbon lover and.

Bruce: 00:13:16

Alcohol Free Spirits entrepreneur, Lauren Chitwood.

Bruce: 00:13:20

She and her business partners created the brand called Spiritless, and their

Bruce: 00:13:24

flagship product is Kentucky 74, which they call a beautifully distilled

Bruce: 00:13:31

non-alcohol spirit for bourbon cocktails.

Bruce: 00:13:34

Welcome, Lauren.

Lauren: 00:13:35

Thank you, Bruce.

Lauren: 00:13:36

I'm so excited to be here.

Bruce: 00:13:37

I wanna start with the basics.

Bruce: 00:13:39

Can you tell me what is bourbon if it's not an alcoholic beverage?

Lauren: 00:13:43

I know.

Lauren: 00:13:43

What a loaded question, right?

Lauren: 00:13:45

We, we went to great lengths to try to give the consumer as many touchpoints

Lauren: 00:13:50

to understand what this might be like while obviously, you know, honoring

Lauren: 00:13:56

the, the, the treasure that is bourbon.

Lauren: 00:13:58

So, you know, I, I live in Louisville, Kentucky, you know, bourbon.

Lauren: 00:14:02

In our blood and all around us here in, in these neck of the woods.

Lauren: 00:14:05

But you know what, what we really wanted as, as moms, as business

Lauren: 00:14:11

women was, you know, to be able to go out and, and keep up with the boys

Lauren: 00:14:15

even when we couldn't keep up with the boys , if we're being honest.

Lauren: 00:14:18

Right?

Lauren: 00:14:19

And so, you know, I love an incredible old fashioned I can.

Lauren: 00:14:23

One.

Lauren: 00:14:24

Mm-hmm.

Lauren: 00:14:25

. And you know, if I make that decision to move to the second, I just can't hang.

Lauren: 00:14:29

Right.

Lauren: 00:14:29

So what's wonderful about, about Spiritless and certainly about Kentucky 74

Lauren: 00:14:34

is it's an incredible tool in our toolkit.

Lauren: 00:14:36

It is reminiscent of that incredible Native spirit we've created this.

Lauren: 00:14:41

Awesome process to be able to hold on to all the tannins and

Lauren: 00:14:44

the oils and really, you know, have something that's darn close.

Lauren: 00:14:48

Not the same but darn close.

Bruce: 00:14:50

You say this is a distilled spirit and people think, well, what

Bruce: 00:14:53

comes out of the still is alcohol, so how do you create an alcohol free?

Bruce: 00:14:59

Product coming out of a still without giving away all your trade secrets.

Lauren: 00:15:02

It's a wonderful story.

Lauren: 00:15:03

So, you know, what we knew was that the consumer was making purchase decisions

Lauren: 00:15:08

about these incredible spirits based upon how, how these products were made.

Lauren: 00:15:13

Right.

Lauren: 00:15:14

At what age, et cetera.

Lauren: 00:15:15

Right.

Lauren: 00:15:16

And you know, when we looked at the space broadly, what we saw in the

Lauren: 00:15:20

competitive set was that it was all water with a bunch of flavoring in it.

Lauren: 00:15:24

And we just.

Lauren: 00:15:25

That doesn't feel like a spirit to me.

Lauren: 00:15:27

You can't call yourself a spirit.

Lauren: 00:15:28

We know better than that.

Lauren: 00:15:30

Right?

Lauren: 00:15:30

And so what actually happened was we built this little baby still in our basement,

Lauren: 00:15:36

Um, it was YouTube University all the way.

Lauren: 00:15:39

It was literally a popcorn tin with a commercial SousVide.

Lauren: 00:15:43

We connected it to this P v C pipe arm that had a sump pump and a cooler,

Lauren: 00:15:47

and we were buying bulked forester off the shelf and, and basically

Lauren: 00:15:51

trying to low and slow just vapor.

Lauren: 00:15:55

Just like you would on a stove in some ways, the ethanol off

Lauren: 00:15:58

and see what would happen.

Lauren: 00:16:00

Right.

Lauren: 00:16:00

And, you know, there was, there was some incredible learnings, uh, you know,

Lauren: 00:16:04

that is not technically our process now, but it really informed, you know, some

Lauren: 00:16:08

of our foundational truths or thoughts about how to manipulate a spirit.

Lauren: 00:16:13

Can we do a distillation process that lets us make better?

Lauren: 00:16:18

And you know, what we, what we now have is we do a, essentially a thermal extraction.

Lauren: 00:16:23

We put essentially the barrel into the still.

Lauren: 00:16:26

If you can wrap your mind around that.

Lauren: 00:16:28

Um, we literally have this huge tea bag that goes in with

Lauren: 00:16:31

a corn based grain neutral.

Lauren: 00:16:33

And we, in about, I don't know, a handful of hours, seven hours, take

Lauren: 00:16:37

all the flavor out of that chart.

Lauren: 00:16:40

So we're just speeding up the process, right?

Lauren: 00:16:42

Because generally speaking, a barrel, you know, sits in a Rick

Lauren: 00:16:45

house for at least four years in this crazy Kentucky weather salute.

Lauren: 00:16:48

It surely expands and contracts.

Lauren: 00:16:50

We say, you know, we're impatient.

Lauren: 00:16:52

We're women.

Lauren: 00:16:52

We need to get this done faster.

Lauren: 00:16:53

We got stuff to do.

Lauren: 00:16:54

So in about seven hours, we do what, what the good Lord does in four years, and then

Lauren: 00:16:59

we're able to take off in another process.

Lauren: 00:17:01

Just the ethyl in just the Esther, and that comes off crystal.

Lauren: 00:17:07

, it looks like water, but what's left after we take off and hold on to

Lauren: 00:17:12

those flavor molecules is just this incredible concentrate that holds on

Lauren: 00:17:17

to all the tannins and the oils from that oak and allows us to, to have

Lauren: 00:17:21

our first ingredient in Kentucky 74 or our tequila product, hallis, go 55.

Lauren: 00:17:27

You know, b.

Lauren: 00:17:28

Our distillate.

Lauren: 00:17:29

So that is the crazy way it came to be.

Lauren: 00:17:32

And you know, really it's, it's a, it's a fun, slick process.

Lauren: 00:17:35

It just allows us to make incredible liquid.

Bruce: 00:17:37

That sounds fascinating.

Bruce: 00:17:39

Being able to take all the flavor from the wood and then get rid of

Bruce: 00:17:42

the alcohol and be left with that sort of concentrated essence of

Bruce: 00:17:46

bourbon with without the alcohol.

Bruce: 00:17:48

But what about this process and what about Kentucky 74?

Bruce: 00:17:53

Makes your product different from all the other non-alcoholic bourbons on the market

Lauren: 00:17:57

process alone is, is probably the biggest differentiator.

Lauren: 00:18:00

As I said, almost everything is water and flavor, and we wanted something that

Lauren: 00:18:05

had enough heft to it and had enough body to it that really allowed it to walk the

Lauren: 00:18:11

walk of a, of a spirit of a cocktail.

Lauren: 00:18:13

And I think ethanol is a magical molecule.

Lauren: 00:18:15

It has a, an obviously a very incredible sensory component.

Lauren: 00:18:19

Also melds flavors and, you know, there's, there's all kind.

Lauren: 00:18:23

Interesting things that ethanol brings to the table.

Lauren: 00:18:25

Certainly when you remove that by design, there are going

Lauren: 00:18:27

to be things that you miss.

Lauren: 00:18:29

Yeah.

Lauren: 00:18:29

But the delicate balance of being able to hold onto enough of those flavor

Lauren: 00:18:33

molecules to really still have heft to me is the magic and the elegance

Lauren: 00:18:39

of what is spiritless products.

Lauren: 00:18:42

You know, because of our process, we're allowed to just have liquid that stands

Lauren: 00:18:45

head and shoulders above the rest

Bruce: 00:18:47

across the board.

Bruce: 00:18:48

Though most non alcohol experience do lack something, you said that

Bruce: 00:18:51

there's gonna be something missing and one of the things is the burn.

Bruce: 00:18:55

Now a lot of people enjoy that burn, even if it's a mild burn.

Bruce: 00:18:59

So how do you address that?

Bruce: 00:19:00

At Spiritless,

Lauren: 00:19:01

broadly across the space, there are people that are trying

Lauren: 00:19:04

to mimic that burn, um, and they're doing it with pepper and for.

Lauren: 00:19:10

You know, as, as easier ears and drinkers, we said, this feels like a chicken wing.

Lauren: 00:19:14

This doesn't feel like a spirit to me.

Lauren: 00:19:17

And I know there's people that are really looking for that and

Lauren: 00:19:19

need that, but for us, we said we want something that is a sipper.

Lauren: 00:19:23

We want something that feels complex and, and and deep and has that heft to it.

Lauren: 00:19:27

But if I could pick and choose, Our pallets, were much more focused on that

Lauren: 00:19:32

side of it versus replicating burn.

Lauren: 00:19:34

Mm-hmm.

Lauren: 00:19:34

So I think, you know, in Spiritless products you're gonna find some of

Lauren: 00:19:37

that and there's some things that, that certainly you can do to help, um, kind

Lauren: 00:19:41

of bridge that gap when you're using non-alcoholic spirits and cocktails.

Lauren: 00:19:45

You know, for us we have a product that's called horses Kick ginger syrup.

Lauren: 00:19:49

You know, we've actually found that Ginger is a great building block to

Lauren: 00:19:52

get some of that natural heat that doesn't have that capsaicin heat.

Lauren: 00:19:56

So I would highly recommend if you.

Lauren: 00:19:58

Make it an old fashioned or a margarita with a, with a Spiritless product.

Lauren: 00:20:02

Pick up some horses kick because I think you're gonna go, Ooh,

Lauren: 00:20:04

let's fix that little hole.

Lauren: 00:20:06

That tiny, tiny little hole that was there.

Bruce: 00:20:08

You talked about jalisco 55, that's your second product.

Bruce: 00:20:12

Tell me about that.

Lauren: 00:20:12

When we founded Spiritless, one of the things that we wanted

Lauren: 00:20:15

to do was to be able to walk in a bar and order classics, right?

Lauren: 00:20:19

Have an old fashioned, have a margarita, and you know, that was, that was

Lauren: 00:20:23

a big piece of our inspiration.

Lauren: 00:20:24

I think the other side of that is, you know, In the non-alcoholic spirit

Lauren: 00:20:28

space broadly, there's certainly a lot of a, a lot of different

Lauren: 00:20:32

flavors and experiences out there.

Lauren: 00:20:34

But in the bourbon and in the tequila world, those are two very, very distinct

Lauren: 00:20:38

spirits that are really hard to do well.

Lauren: 00:20:41

Um, and, and I think there's some reasons for that.

Lauren: 00:20:43

Obviously, when you start playing with gins and, you know, a variety of other

Lauren: 00:20:46

things, com you know, uh, even just like some Campari based spirits, like

Lauren: 00:20:50

those are, those are more off the.

Lauren: 00:20:52

If you will.

Lauren: 00:20:53

Flavors, mm-hmm.

Lauren: 00:20:54

, I mean, Juniper, for example.

Lauren: 00:20:55

Easy extraction.

Lauren: 00:20:56

Yep.

Lauren: 00:20:56

So we worked really, really hard to get some of that tequila bunk,

Lauren: 00:21:01

you know, and to, to build in some of those, those building blocks.

Lauren: 00:21:05

And I think we've done, we've done a pretty incredible job for it.

Lauren: 00:21:08

But it, it makes a mean margarita.

Lauren: 00:21:10

I know we're not quite in margarita season yet, but, um, you know, you will

Lauren: 00:21:14

really go, oh my gosh, like this feels.

Lauren: 00:21:17

This.

Lauren: 00:21:17

This feels like a tequila cocktail.

Bruce: 00:21:19

Hey, Lauren, do you see a place for alcohol free spirits like your Kentucky

Bruce: 00:21:24

75 and HESCO 55 on the bar for everyone?

Bruce: 00:21:28

Or is your market strictly for folks who don't partake in alcohol?

Lauren: 00:21:33

I think that one of the most shocking statistics that we've now been

Lauren: 00:21:36

able to kind of prove and um, and check an enormous scale is that 75% of the

Lauren: 00:21:43

consumers who consume adult non-alcoholic products like spiritless, like non

Lauren: 00:21:47

beer, also consume alcoholic products.

Lauren: 00:21:50

Hmm.

Lauren: 00:21:51

Right.

Lauren: 00:21:51

So what, what people are now realizing is these are incredible

Lauren: 00:21:54

tools in your toolkit, right?

Lauren: 00:21:56

It's you're, you're on an antibiotic or you're, you know, watching your

Lauren: 00:22:00

calories and you're being good during the week, um, or you know, you're a

Lauren: 00:22:05

female at a business dinner and you can't have three, like the boys can, right?

Lauren: 00:22:09

There are so many reasons that these.

Lauren: 00:22:11

Can be incredible additions to people's lives that still enjoy, you know, enjoy

Lauren: 00:22:17

spirits, enjoy alcohol on occasion.

Lauren: 00:22:19

And I think that that's really what we're seeing in a broad scale.

Lauren: 00:22:21

You know, they are products for everybody sometimes, but not

Lauren: 00:22:24

necessarily everybody all the time.

Bruce: 00:22:27

Well, I think you and your partners have created an

Bruce: 00:22:29

amazing addition to this category.

Bruce: 00:22:31

Lauren Chitwood from Spiritless.

Bruce: 00:22:33

Thank you for spending some time with me and talking about your amazing products.

Lauren: 00:22:37

Oh, listen, thank you.

Lauren: 00:22:38

I appreciate you hosting me, Bruce.

Lauren: 00:22:40

We're thrilled to be here.

Lauren: 00:22:41

My pleasure.

Mark: 00:22:42

So this whole thing of spirit free spirits is becoming quite a trend, right?

Bruce: 00:22:48

It really is.

Bruce: 00:22:48

And I love the fact that, as she said, that the majority of people who drink.

Bruce: 00:22:55

Spiritless spirits and her products also drink alcohol.

Bruce: 00:22:59

That this is not just interesting for people who don't want alcohol, but for

Bruce: 00:23:03

people to add it to their toolbox of things so they can have, you know, so

Bruce: 00:23:07

let's say you really like to have a drink, but you ca as she said, you can't have

Bruce: 00:23:10

more than one or more than two, right?

Bruce: 00:23:12

But you want to keep.

Bruce: 00:23:13

Going with the evening and enjoy the flavor and enjoy the camaraderie.

Bruce: 00:23:16

So you have one drink with real bourbon and then you make your

Bruce: 00:23:19

next one or two with Spiritless.

Mark: 00:23:21

It's a really great idea and it's a great idea also, if you, um,

Mark: 00:23:26

you know, in New England where we live, we go to a lot of dinner parties and.

Mark: 00:23:30

Inevitably cuz it's so waspy.

Mark: 00:23:33

Inevitably there's cocktail hour before the dinner party.

Mark: 00:23:36

Inevitably hour or two.

Mark: 00:23:38

Yeah, two hour cocktail hours before the dinner party.

Mark: 00:23:41

And you know, it would be really great to be able to sip on a Spiritless

Mark: 00:23:46

bourbon or tequila because somebody's opening an ice bottle of wine with.

Mark: 00:23:50

Dinner and you know, you think to yourself, oh my gosh, if I drink, uh,

Mark: 00:23:53

tequila now and then I tear into the wine later, it's gonna all add up to a headache

Mark: 00:23:58

tomorrow and a stomach ache tomorrow and, you know, not such good stuff.

Mark: 00:24:02

So it, it's really a great idea all around to, it is kind of cut down on the

Mark: 00:24:06

overall amount of ethanol you absorb.

Mark: 00:24:13

Our last segment of the podcast as is traditional, what's making

Mark: 00:24:16

us happy in food this week?

Mark: 00:24:18

And you get to go first.

Bruce: 00:24:20

Well, I'm loving my coconut water.

Bruce: 00:24:22

It's just something that is like, I don't know.

Bruce: 00:24:25

I really.

Bruce: 00:24:26

But it's interesting.

Bruce: 00:24:27

So I've drunk coconut water for a long time, but what I have come to realize,

Mark: 00:24:31

I'm gonna insert and say I despise coconut water.

Mark: 00:24:34

I, I just despise it.

Mark: 00:24:35

I know you, it makes me just wanna run out of the room.

Mark: 00:24:38

So please go on

Bruce: 00:24:39

with, well, I drink it water because I like it and not

Bruce: 00:24:42

because like the advertising on it.

Bruce: 00:24:45

And some people say, oh, it's so hydrating.

Bruce: 00:24:48

Okay.

Bruce: 00:24:48

You know what else is hydrating?

Bruce: 00:24:50

Water, water.

Bruce: 00:24:50

Water is hydrating.

Bruce: 00:24:52

, I drink it cuz I like it and it's actually not terribly high in sugar.

Bruce: 00:24:57

So I thought until I started looking at all the labels, some

Bruce: 00:25:01

brands, even if they say, No sugar added are sweeter than others.

Bruce: 00:25:06

And how do you know how much sugar's in it?

Bruce: 00:25:08

Then look at the nutrition info on the label.

Bruce: 00:25:11

See how many net carbs are in a cup.

Bruce: 00:25:14

Mark and I were recently added a charming little market in Great Barrington,

Bruce: 00:25:17

and they had a big collection of coconut waters and some had as few as.

Bruce: 00:25:21

Eight grams of carbs per cup.

Bruce: 00:25:23

Some went up to 12, and that's with no added sugar.

Bruce: 00:25:27

So I guess it depends on where they're sourcing their

Bruce: 00:25:29

coconuts, where they're coming.

Bruce: 00:25:30

Some coconuts have more sugar in them than others, what the

Bruce: 00:25:34

ripeness of the coconut was.

Bruce: 00:25:35

So you can actually control the sugar content just by looking at the label.

Mark: 00:25:39

Right.

Mark: 00:25:39

It, it is a, it is really important if you're interested in controlling your

Mark: 00:25:44

sugar content to always read the labels.

Mark: 00:25:46

It's always important to anything to read the labels.

Mark: 00:25:48

What's making me happy this week in food is Haiga Rice, and if you don't

Mark: 00:25:51

know what Haga Rice is, I'm here to tell you that it is something that

Mark: 00:25:56

you should explore in your life.

Mark: 00:25:58

Haiga Rice is a great kind of median point between white rice and brown rice, right?

Bruce: 00:26:04

It is.

Bruce: 00:26:04

Brown rice has the bran around the.

Bruce: 00:26:07

kernel and the germ under that brand.

Bruce: 00:26:09

Right?

Bruce: 00:26:10

Right.

Bruce: 00:26:10

The germ is where a lot of the flavor and the oils and some of the good nutrition

Bruce: 00:26:16

right from rice comes from, and the bran is, the bran is just pure roughage.

Mark: 00:26:19

Yeah.

Mark: 00:26:19

The brand is fiber and it's, it has dietary reasons to be there, but it

Mark: 00:26:23

is the fibrous content of the brown.

Mark: 00:26:25

Right.

Mark: 00:26:25

Nice

Bruce: 00:26:26

Haiga.

Bruce: 00:26:26

Rice.

Bruce: 00:26:27

Removes the bran but not the germ, which is really weird.

Bruce: 00:26:30

So you get all the flavor of brown rice, you do get more nutrition than white rice.

Bruce: 00:26:35

You don't get quite as much fiber as brown rice.

Bruce: 00:26:37

No, but you do get more fiber than if you ate plain, regular milled white rice.

Bruce: 00:26:41

Right?

Bruce: 00:26:42

And it.

Bruce: 00:26:42

Cooks as fast as white rice, which is really nice.

Mark: 00:26:44

H A I G A.

Mark: 00:26:46

You can find it at H Mart, you can find it at Asian supermarkets.

Mark: 00:26:50

Sometimes you can find it at large gourmet supermarkets.

Mark: 00:26:53

You can always find it online.

Mark: 00:26:55

It's a great way to kind of.

Mark: 00:26:57

Ease yourself into eating brown rice, which is of course highly nutritious

Mark: 00:27:03

brown rice and very good for you.

Mark: 00:27:06

But if you're a little afraid of the whole brown rice commitment

Mark: 00:27:10

hiker rice cooks like white rice, it tastes a little bit like brown rice.

Mark: 00:27:15

It's a great median point between the two.

Mark: 00:27:18

Okay, that's our podcast for this week.

Mark: 00:27:20

We are so glad you've been along on this journey.

Mark: 00:27:24

We are busily writing our next cookbook out later this year.

Mark: 00:27:29

But in the meantime, we're here every week at cooking with Bruce and Mark finding

Mark: 00:27:34

out about food trends, interviewing food entrepreneurs, people starting

Mark: 00:27:39

food businesses, cookbook authors.

Mark: 00:27:42

You get it all.

Mark: 00:27:43

. At cooking with Bruce and.