Podchaser Logo Rate on Podchaser

Episode 60

full
Published on:

11th Nov 2024

WELCOME TO OUR KITCHEN: What happened to Chinese food in North America?

In North America, Chinese food has changed soooo much over the last thirty years. Let's talk about what's gone on, from Sweet And Sour Pork to the crazy-good range of Szechwan food available now.

We're Bruce Weinstein & Mark Scarbrough. We've written over three dozen cookbooks and this is our podcast about that passion. We've developed tens of thousands of original recipes in our career and even ghost-written several cookbooks for celebrities.

Thanks for being on this journey with us. Here are the segments for this episode of COOKING WITH BRUCE & MARK:

[01:11] Our one-minute cooking tip: Watch out for hidden caffeine in your food.

[03:38] What’s happened to Chinese food in North America? Let's talk about the incredibly changed landscape of Chinese cooking, from the once-favorite chop suey to today's incredible range of dishes at regional Chinese restaurants in North America.

[23:00] What’s making us happy in food this week: Korean rice cake carbonara and osso buco.

Transcript
Bruce:

Hey, I'm Bruce Weinstein, and this is the podcast

2

:

Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

3

:

Mark: And I'm Mark Scarborough.

4

:

And we're approaching the holidays here

in North America and in parts of Europe,

5

:

so we're not going to talk about that.

6

:

Bruce: You're not going

to tell us what to do?

7

:

Mark: We're the only food podcast right

now that's not all up into Thanksgiving,

8

:

but we will get back up into Thanksgiving

next time around, probably, I guess.

9

:

Bruce writes these episodes,

so I'm not sure, but I hope so.

10

:

We were on beverages for the holidays a

couple weeks ago, but now we're going to

11

:

be instead on something that's lurking

in your food that you may not know about.

12

:

You don't have to be scared about it.

13

:

You just have.

14

:

to know about it.

15

:

We're going to tell you that in the one

minute cooking tip, then we're going to

16

:

talk about Chinese food and particularly

Chinese food in North America.

17

:

I want to talk to you about kind of

the ways it has changed in the last

18

:

25 years, what's happened to it.

19

:

It's extremely interesting story about

globalization and about an increasing

20

:

awareness of the world around us.

21

:

And finally, as always, we'll end with

what's making us happy and food this week.

22

:

So let's get started.

23

:

Bruce: Our one minute cooking tip.

24

:

Be careful of hidden

caffeine in your food.

25

:

Yeah, this is a kicker.

26

:

Kombucha, everyone's drinking kombucha

these days, often made from fermented

27

:

teas, and therefore contains caffeine,

so if you're like someone who says,

28

:

I don't drink kombucha, Coffee or

tea after three in the afternoon,

29

:

but you have a big glass of kombucha,

you're probably getting caffeine

30

:

Mark: and another hidden source

of caffeine and this came as a big

31

:

surprise to me are Protein bars protein

bars up all sorts often include a

32

:

heavy hit of For example, the Cliff

chocolate chip cookie dough flavored

33

:

protein bars that are very popular

have 65 milligrams of caffeine in it.

34

:

That's like getting an espresso shot.

35

:

It

36

:

Bruce: is.

37

:

And even their standard chocolate

chip protein bar has chocolate

38

:

and chocolate has caffeine, right?

39

:

I mean, I don't know.

40

:

An ounce of dark chocolate's got 12 grams.

41

:

That's not nothing.

42

:

Mark: That's not nothing.

43

:

It's not a lot, but it's not nothing.

44

:

And you should just be really aware of

the caffeine level, particularly if you

45

:

have cardiac or respiratory issues, you

have allergies, any of these things,

46

:

which speed up production of mucus and

other things in the body and speed up

47

:

heart rate, just know that caffeine lurks

around the corner in a lot of things.

48

:

I'm still always surprised.

49

:

And now it's.

50

:

We're going over one minute.

51

:

I'm always surprised about the number

of people who don't know that dark,

52

:

soft drinks like Coca Cola and Dr.

53

:

Pepper and those kind of

things have caffeine in them.

54

:

Oh,

55

:

Bruce: and Mountain Dew and even those.

56

:

I'm

57

:

Mark: always shocked by people who

don't know those have caffeine in them.

58

:

Bruce: And all they have to do

is go to the store and look at

59

:

the shelves where it's, Caffeine

free Coke, caffeine free Dr.

60

:

Pepper.

61

:

I know, but you They wouldn't be

selling that if there wasn't caffeine.

62

:

But you say

63

:

Mark: that and somebody

still doesn't really know.

64

:

They're like, what, Dr.

65

:

Pepper has caffeine?

66

:

And you're like, well, then

why do they sell caffeine free?

67

:

And, um, just be careful.

68

:

If you've got, especially, as

I say, cardiac or pulmonary

69

:

sensitivities, just be careful

about how much caffeine you have.

70

:

You don't have to freak

out, but just be aware.

71

:

of what you're eating.

72

:

Okay, before we get to the next segment

about Chinese food in North America

73

:

on our podcast, uh, let me just say

that we really appreciate your being a

74

:

part of us and we would love it if you

could write us a review on any podcast

75

:

platform or just rate the podcast.

76

:

We'd like to stay up to date.

77

:

Unsponsored because we don't want

to be at the behest of anyone.

78

:

So you're doing that helps us stay

in the analytics, which keeps the

79

:

podcast fresh, which means that we can

actually continue on without a sponsor.

80

:

So thanks for doing that.

81

:

Okay up next What has happened

to Chinese food in the last

82

:

40 50 years in North America?

83

:

Bruce: If you've listened to more than

a few episodes of this podcast You know

84

:

that I, Bruce, make a lot of Chinese food.

85

:

Mark (2): Right.

86

:

Bruce: And I have interviewed

quite a few Chinese chefs

87

:

and Chinese cookbook authors.

88

:

And I've always had a, not even

a love hate, I've had a love,

89

:

love, love relationship with

Chinese food since I was a child.

90

:

Mark: And let me just, Mao, the

writer, is going to add to that.

91

:

offer a caveat before we launch

into this larger discussion.

92

:

And it's a caveat that you may

be a little uncomfortable with.

93

:

I mean, you may be impatient with my

saying this, but I just want to say

94

:

that saying the term Chinese food is

a bit racialist because we should be

95

:

saying food from China because there

isn't such a thing as Chinese food.

96

:

When You say that you're lumping many

different culinary traditions under

97

:

a label, in fact, a political label

of a political landscape, China.

98

:

And we have many ethnic groups,

many different kinds of Chinese

99

:

food produced, not only in China,

but in North America, in Europe.

100

:

So Chinese food has a

little bit of a racist.

101

:

edge to it.

102

:

And don't be impatient

with me for saying that.

103

:

I think it's really important to

be sensitive to that and say, we're

104

:

using a kind of shorthand term.

105

:

I just used it a minute

ago in what I was saying.

106

:

We're using a shorthand term, but it's

not necessarily a great short term.

107

:

It used to be.

108

:

And this is the big change.

109

:

Once upon a time when we were little.

110

:

Chinese food meant something and

it meant a kind of conglomeration

111

:

of American Chinese food.

112

:

Bruce: Now, when I was a kid, one

of my favorite activities when my

113

:

parents said we were going to go

down to Chinatown and have dinner.

114

:

Made me so happy and so excited

because yes, there was a decent

115

:

Chinese food restaurant near us in

Queens where I grew up outside of

116

:

Manhattan Kings on Horace Harding

Expressway by Springfield Boulevard

117

:

and the food all came on those little

stainless steel stands with the lids.

118

:

And on the table was hot mustard and duck

sauce and a little fried crispy things.

119

:

My mother wouldn't let

me touch the hot mustard.

120

:

She always was afraid I was going

to get into the hot mustard.

121

:

Oh my goodness, we ordered the ribs

and dipped them in that hot mustard.

122

:

But every now and then, my parents

would say, let's drive into

123

:

the city and go to Chinatown.

124

:

And it was always delicious.

125

:

Now a battle, because my parents

loved Cantonese style Chinese food.

126

:

Shrimp and lobster sauce.

127

:

They liked shrimp and lobster sauce.

128

:

My father loved chicken chow mein.

129

:

Oh, there you go.

130

:

They liked things, you

know, chicken almond ding.

131

:

They li Oh!

132

:

Mm hmm.

133

:

Ooh!

134

:

Mark: Ooh!

135

:

That's what it was called.

136

:

Racist.

137

:

That's what it was called.

138

:

Oh, Chicken Almond Ding.

139

:

That's as bad as The King and I.

140

:

That is terrible.

141

:

Okay, do go on.

142

:

Well,

143

:

Bruce: it's not as bad as some

things, but it's pretty bad.

144

:

Mark: Uh, yeah.

145

:

Okay, do go on.

146

:

Bruce: I wanted to go to the Sichuan

restaurants that were down the street,

147

:

and I wanted the spicy things, and I

wanted the stir fries with beef and

148

:

chilies, and they were like, Nope.

149

:

So I got lots and lots and lots of

Cantonese food when I was a kid.

150

:

What was your Chinese

food experience like?

151

:

Well, I think I had

152

:

Mark: the very typical

North American experience.

153

:

I grew up in Dallas, Texas, and we

went down to this place, Yee's, which

154

:

was down on Lemon Avenue a million

years ago, if you know Dallas.

155

:

And Yee's was the typical egg foo young,

um, uh, you know, sweet and sour pork with

156

:

the pineapple or the maraschino cherries.

157

:

Yee's.

158

:

Um, which I listen as a kid, I loved, I

thought getting sweet and sour pork in

159

:

the no sour, all sweet sauce with the

maraschino cherries was so sophisticated.

160

:

It looked sophisticated.

161

:

Did they serve it in

162

:

Bruce: a pineapple

163

:

Mark: half?

164

:

No, they served it in those, uh, those

silver pedestal things with the domes and

165

:

they would put it all down and lift it.

166

:

the domes all at once.

167

:

And I should say that in typical

fashion, and I think this was a more U.

168

:

S.

169

:

Canadian rather than New York fashion,

we each ordered a dish and ate our dish.

170

:

We did not share Chinese food.

171

:

I know.

172

:

Bruce: When Mark first told

me that, that's what they did.

173

:

I was dumbfounded.

174

:

Mark: And I should tell you that, uh, of

course I was ever the adventurous kid.

175

:

And the fact first time I ordered

Mushu pork, my parents freaked out

176

:

because they didn't know what it was.

177

:

And they were like, why are you ordering?

178

:

And then it came with the

pancakes and all this stuff.

179

:

And I thought I was just,

Oh, I was, I mean, I might as

180

:

well have been Josh like war.

181

:

I was the height of sophistication, you

182

:

Bruce: know, but it was, it was exotic and

it was different and it was sophisticated.

183

:

Mark (2): It's that exotic thing

that has the racialist air to it.

184

:

It does.

185

:

I know.

186

:

It's

187

:

Bruce: gross.

188

:

I continued to have this love

affair with Chinese food.

189

:

I lived in Brooklyn in the

early eighties before Brooklyn

190

:

gentrified in a neighborhood

that I was terrified to live in.

191

:

I would run from the garage where I

parked my car to my apartment hoping

192

:

like I didn't get stabbed to death.

193

:

I mean, it was not a fun place and there

was one Chinese takeout place and it was

194

:

called Sky star, but the s was burned out

from the sign, so it was sky, tar and when

195

:

you could to order fruit from sky tar.

196

:

It was, you know, it, it was not very, um,

what I would call contemporary, authentic.

197

:

It wasn't trying to do

anything, so I decided.

198

:

I had to do this myself.

199

:

I had to learn.

200

:

Didn't you, wait,

201

:

Mark: so just for people who didn't grow

up in this time and in New York, so you

202

:

had to order through Plexiglas, right?

203

:

In

204

:

Bruce: this neighborhood, it was so

bad that they had a giant Plexiglas

205

:

turntable, and you spoke through holes in

it, and then you would put your Not the

206

:

Mark: holes in the turntable,

the holes in the Plexiglas wall.

207

:

Yep, so

208

:

Bruce: you could talk to them.

209

:

And then you'd put your money on

the turntable, they would turn it,

210

:

so now the money's on the inside.

211

:

Then they would put the bag of

food and turn it back to you.

212

:

Wow.

213

:

Wow.

214

:

Because otherwise they were afraid.

215

:

It was not a safe neighborhood.

216

:

Mark: And let me say that Yee's, where

I went in Dallas, included a doorman

217

:

who opened the front door for you.

218

:

So it was a very different experience.

219

:

What ethnicity was that doorman?

220

:

I don't

221

:

Bruce: know.

222

:

Mark: I don't know.

223

:

But, um, it, it was up for us.

224

:

Chinese food was an up experience.

225

:

Well,

226

:

Bruce: it was up because we got to go out.

227

:

But then I think I was about eight.

228

:

18, when I decided I had to learn

how to cook Chinese food, I had

229

:

already started going to chef school.

230

:

I was back at home and I wanted to

learn and there was a guy, famous,

231

:

famous Chinese chef, Norman Weinstein.

232

:

Mark: So, so bad, so bad, go on.

233

:

No

234

:

Bruce: relation to me.

235

:

And he actually taught classes

at the new school in Manhattan,

236

:

and he did cooking classes.

237

:

And I went and took a Sichuan class

from him, and he taught me how to make

238

:

cold sliced pork and garlic sauce.

239

:

And he told me how to That's getting more

240

:

Mark (2): fancy.

241

:

Bruce: He told me how

to make tangerine beef.

242

:

Oh.

243

:

And one day, he brought it home.

244

:

whole duck and we did a deep fried duck

and he made all these dipping sauces and

245

:

the point of this story is that because

of that deep fried duck and him showing us

246

:

how to eat the web feet and the head and

everything else, I became a vegetarian.

247

:

And that lasted three hours.

248

:

Mark: Yeah, that's not my experience

with Chinese food, but you can see right

249

:

there that Chinese food is starting to

not become Chinese food It's starting to

250

:

become what it is Which is a collection

of dishes from again from various ethnic

251

:

and regional groups and you can already

hear it cold slice work in garlic sauce.

252

:

It's starting to move away from

this, uh, for lack of a better

253

:

word, panda express kind of Chinese

food, where it's an amalgamation of

254

:

basically sweet, deep fried food.

255

:

And I think that that's

really important to see.

256

:

In fact, by the time I met Bruce in 96.

257

:

I have been to China.

258

:

I traveled around rural China even, and

I had seen a lot of Chinese cooking.

259

:

And um, when we met, I was much

more conversant in Chinese food.

260

:

I think I was more conversant even

than Bruce who had taken classes on it,

261

:

because I was I introduced him to dim

sum, and I introduced him to congee,

262

:

and I showed you what these things were.

263

:

If you don't know about

congee, it's a rice porridge.

264

:

You overcook the rice until it's

very, very soft and almost mushy,

265

:

and add lots of broth or water to it.

266

:

So it's like a rice porridge, and then

you add savory things to it, like pepper.

267

:

Peanuts and scallions, this kind of

thing is often served for breakfast.

268

:

I love congee with an egg in it.

269

:

I

270

:

Bruce: love it.

271

:

It could be served with protein too.

272

:

Fish can be put into it.

273

:

Shrimp can be put into it.

274

:

And there was a restaurant Mark and I

found on Mott Street in New York and

275

:

they had the most delicious congee and

they had All the roast meats hanging in

276

:

the window and we would go down there.

277

:

Oh, probably every weekend,

just eat congee and

278

:

Mark: chopped up roast pork.

279

:

But I will say that what I now know

about Chinese food, because again,

280

:

this has been a long educational

process away from sweet and sour pork.

281

:

And what I know about it now is that

even back then, when I moved in with you

282

:

in the mid nineties in New York City,

Chinatown still catered a great deal

283

:

to the white patronage and the Chinese

food that would be served in Chinatown.

284

:

Now, I'm sure that Chinese people got

a separate menu and all that kind of

285

:

stuff, but that was served to us on our

menu was very much almost the standard

286

:

stuff, but maybe elevated just a tad.

287

:

I mean, the first time I took Bruce

to dim sum, I'm going to tell a story

288

:

that we sat down at this big table

at this huge dim sum parlor in New

289

:

York city, which I lied found and

I was like, Oh, we have to try it.

290

:

And he's like, what is dim sum?

291

:

The New Yorker?

292

:

What is dim sum?

293

:

I'm like.

294

:

Trust me.

295

:

You want to do this.

296

:

So we went and we had the whole thing

with the rolling carts and all, but

297

:

we sat at the table and there were,

you know, 12 seats at a round table

298

:

and there's just the two of us and

there's like other families at this

299

:

big table because you're just catching

food off the carts as they go by.

300

:

And Bruce reached across the

table and grabbed one of their

301

:

teapots and poured tea in his.

302

:

Bruce: Oh, God, that's their

tea, but I know that Chinese food

303

:

is often a communal activity.

304

:

This

305

:

Mark: is where your

upbringing led you astray.

306

:

It is not everything

on the table is yours.

307

:

That was their tea in

308

:

Bruce: there.

309

:

I wasn't going to reach for their food,

but I thought the tea was fair game.

310

:

Oh my gosh.

311

:

Um, okay.

312

:

But the thing was, They got

different tea than we did.

313

:

Yes, they did.

314

:

They had beautiful black Oolong

tea and they gave, they gave the

315

:

two white boys here jasmine tea.

316

:

They did.

317

:

And you

318

:

Mark: had that, this is one of the

first times we kind of started to

319

:

understand that there was something

different for Chinese people in a lot

320

:

of North American Chinese restaurants.

321

:

And we kind of started to notice this.

322

:

Now we're talking toward

the late nineties.

323

:

And then all of a sudden this revelation

happened and it happened in a restaurant

324

:

that was weirdly just right across

the street from where we live, where

325

:

Bruce: were we lucky?

326

:

Mark: I know it's really weird.

327

:

And so this restaurant advertised

itself as a restaurant that.

328

:

only had one menu and that was its

gimmick and it was a good gimmick.

329

:

In other words, only one menu for

Chinese people and non Chinese people.

330

:

Cause

331

:

Bruce: it was finally

like this hidden secret.

332

:

Cause in New York, as Mark said, it,

people who, you know, looked like they

333

:

were from China or were culturally Chinese

were handed a different menu, right?

334

:

Or

335

:

Mark: often ordered without,

336

:

Bruce: or ordered without a menu.

337

:

So there were two sets of

cooking going on in the kitchen.

338

:

And there was the Chinese

food for the white audience.

339

:

And then there was a Chinese

food for the Asian audience.

340

:

Again, you can't even

341

:

Mark: now call that Chinese food.

342

:

There was a

343

:

regional

344

:

set

345

:

of dishes

346

:

for ethnic Chinese.

347

:

Bruce: And this restaurant decided

it was Grand Sichuan International.

348

:

It was.

349

:

And they decided there will be one menu.

350

:

And it was very funny.

351

:

When they came out with this one

menu, Oh, they got a lot of press.

352

:

The New York Times wrote about them.

353

:

The New York Magazine.

354

:

Everybody was writing

about this revolution.

355

:

Mark: And the dishes were so odd.

356

:

to most New Yorkers, even that they came

and sat down on your table, a giant three

357

:

ring binder that explained every dish.

358

:

There was a photograph

359

:

Bruce: and a couple of sentences is not a

couple of paragraphs of what the dish was

360

:

Mark: and how it was made, you

know, because literally don't

361

:

gross out and turn our podcast off.

362

:

But literally they were serving

like sliced sea cucumber.

363

:

They were selling all

kinds of entrails and.

364

:

Inards and organs and

intestines and tendons

365

:

Bruce: even more shocking than that

was they had a section on the menu

366

:

for chicken dishes and live chicken

dishes when you ordered a dish

367

:

they would they had chickens in the

basement and they would cook kill a

368

:

chicken to make that dish for you.

369

:

Mark: And it was, it said something

like, like a lot, like it was like a

370

:

45 minute process for a live kill dish.

371

:

Um, and all of this says that Chinese

food was becoming not Chinese food.

372

:

It was becoming what I keep saying,

a beautiful and varied amalgam of

373

:

regional and personal cooking taste.

374

:

The cross, uh, broad spectrum.

375

:

And that is the biggest change.

376

:

And while, you know, listen, you may

have been impatient with me with my

377

:

little diatribe about not calling

it Chinese food, but it's important

378

:

because this is what's happened.

379

:

And now we've reached this place

where where you can, in fact, discover

380

:

various personal regional dishes.

381

:

And I don't, I want always to avoid

the authenticity trap because I

382

:

think there are as many Szechuan

grandmothers who make red cooking pork

383

:

as many different ways as there are

grandmothers making red cooking pork.

384

:

But now you can find.

385

:

out about these kind of really

intense breezes and stir fries.

386

:

So for example, Bruce made his sister

and brother in law were here and

387

:

Bruce made some incredible dishes

for them one night while they were

388

:

Bruce: here.

389

:

And let's say they live in the Bay

area, so they can get really good

390

:

Chinese food in a restaurant, but.

391

:

She, my sister just wanted

me to make it because

392

:

Mark: Let me say that, wait, before

you, before you get to your dishes,

393

:

sorry, let me interrupt and say

that she reminds me again about the

394

:

diversification and regionalization

and personalization of Chinese food.

395

:

When Bruce and I visit his sister and

brother in law in the Bay Area, we often

396

:

go to this halal Chinese restaurant

and it is food from a particular

397

:

region of China that is Islamic.

398

:

And so, for example, there's not going

to be any pork in this restaurant

399

:

at all because it's halal Chinese

food and it's not terribly spicy.

400

:

It's very sour.

401

:

There's a lot of sour, fermented

402

:

Bruce: pickled things.

403

:

Yep.

404

:

Mark: Yep.

405

:

And a lot of soured

pickled things in the dish.

406

:

We make a trek all the way down to San

Jose to eat this halal Chinese food.

407

:

It's delicious.

408

:

Bruce: So I made two dishes for Julie

when she and her husband were here.

409

:

And the first one, I don't know the

Chinese name of, I'm not even going

410

:

to pretend that I know what it is.

411

:

I know that this dish is an,

old fashioned comfort food dish.

412

:

I've seen online videos of older

Chinese people talking about having

413

:

this when they were kids, when

they were sick, their mothers would

414

:

make it for them as comfort food.

415

:

You take very fatty ground pork at your

base and you mix into that actually some

416

:

water and some rice wine and some stock.

417

:

You want it to actually be a wet mixture.

418

:

You season it with oyster sauce and water.

419

:

with a white pepper and then the key

ingredient is depending upon where

420

:

your grandmother was from, she would

have either put in preserved chopped

421

:

cabbage or preserved mustard greens.

422

:

I decided to use both.

423

:

Why not?

424

:

And I put both in.

425

:

Then you flatten that into a pie plate.

426

:

You put that into a bamboo

steamer and you steam it.

427

:

Mark: So good.

428

:

And

429

:

Bruce: you end up with this sort of

floating burger patty of meat floating.

430

:

Isn't it really?

431

:

Mark (2): Salty sauce,

432

:

Bruce: salty, fatty, delicious sauce.

433

:

And you pour that sauce over the rice.

434

:

And

435

:

Mark: you like chunk it up almost

like pie wedges or just with a spoon.

436

:

And then you want all

the sauce on your rice.

437

:

Bruce: So comforting.

438

:

And then the other thing I

made is, uh, sometimes called

439

:

fish and sour mustard soup.

440

:

And it's really,

441

:

Mark (2): favorite thing.

442

:

Bruce: A simple dish.

443

:

Actually, if you think about it, um, I

just stir fried some ginger and scallions

444

:

and garlic and some fermented red chilies,

which yes, of course I fermented myself.

445

:

And then you put in a fish broth and

you put in some sliced thin white fish.

446

:

I used sea perch.

447

:

Mark: Thank you, Costco.

448

:

Costco has amazing sea perch.

449

:

Bruce: And the key ingredient is is

the soured pickled mustard greens.

450

:

And you buy those in pouches, you drain

off the brine, you chop it up, you

451

:

let that all come to a little simmer,

and then you put fresh green Sichuan

452

:

peppercorns, which you can find in a

freezer section of an Asian market.

453

:

And it's just so good.

454

:

And

455

:

Mark: Sichuan, green Sichuan,

456

:

Bruce: Chili oil.

457

:

Well, yeah, I added that on top

too, because we like sizzling

458

:

oil over the top of the whole.

459

:

I poured it over the hop just

to bring out all those flavors.

460

:

It was so it's

461

:

Mark: it's an amazing dish.

462

:

And again, this is what has happened

is that we have all become now because

463

:

of globalization, whatever you think

about that politically, but because

464

:

of globalization and because of the

access to ingredients on a global

465

:

scale, we've become globalized.

466

:

All much more conversant in these things.

467

:

So let me say, when we round out

this discussion about where Chinese

468

:

food has come from, let me encourage

you to find local small Chinese

469

:

businesses and frequent them.

470

:

And you can do this with really

easy Google searches, Yelp searches,

471

:

TripAdvisor searches in your area.

472

:

And the reason I say this is twofold.

473

:

One, To get away from Panda

Express, of course, and broaden

474

:

your understanding of Chinese food,

which is really a fun thing to do.

475

:

And two, a lot of these places that

you'll frequent are small entrepreneurs,

476

:

and we all want to support small

entrepreneurs and small businesses,

477

:

and we all want to help them.

478

:

them survive.

479

:

So you're not only helping,

uh, broaden your own palette,

480

:

you're kind of helping the U.

481

:

S.

482

:

economy by supporting

a small entrepreneur.

483

:

And it will make a difference in what

you consider, quote, unquote, Chinese

484

:

food to this new and exciting and

vast world of regional, cultural,

485

:

and geographic dishes in China.

486

:

Before we get to the last part

of this podcast, let me say that

487

:

Bruce and I have a TikTok channel

and, uh, you should check it out.

488

:

It's cooking with Bruce

and Mark on TikTok.

489

:

You can find cooking with Bruce and Mark

on Instagram and you can find us of course

490

:

in our Facebook group as Bruce always

tells you, but the TikTok channel is got.

491

:

All the videos lately that are going

up and, uh, that's kind of fun.

492

:

We're, we've been on a chocolate

cookie jag for a while now.

493

:

Um, Bruce, I've been making Bruce dairy

free chocolate chip cookies and he's

494

:

been making me full butter, chocolate

cookies of all different kinds.

495

:

I even overcame my fear

of a pastry bag recently.

496

:

Bruce: And you made the most

delicious almond horns for me.

497

:

Mark: I did.

498

:

They were good.

499

:

So, um, you might want to

check that out on Tik TOK.

500

:

And, uh, see what we're up to, because

it's a great thing to subscribe to

501

:

just to get constant videos about

food, which is, you know, we love,

502

:

all right, as is traditional, the

last segment of this podcast, what's

503

:

making us happy in food this week?

504

:

Bruce: Korean rice cake carbonara.

505

:

Mark: Oh gosh.

506

:

Okay.

507

:

Well, this is something you can

find on TikTok, but okay, go on,

508

:

you can find on our TikTok channel.

509

:

So

510

:

Bruce: the Korean rice cakes that

are tubular, you know, the tubular

511

:

rice cakes, not the flat ones,

the Becky, and I know that's not.

512

:

correct accent of pronunciation, but

so I basically used that instead of

513

:

pasta to make a carbonara with egg

yolks and parmesan cheese and bacon and

514

:

man, it was filling and it was filling.

515

:

But as we ate it, I kept

saying something is wrong.

516

:

It's like there was this cross

cultural problem happening.

517

:

The flavor was totally carbonara

and Italian and the texture

518

:

was totally Korean rice cake.

519

:

So

520

:

Mark: the difference in us.

521

:

Bruce: And I didn't know what to do

with it as I ate it, except enjoy it.

522

:

Mark: It's, it's, you're the chef and

you're much more into like, well, but this

523

:

goes with this and this goes with this.

524

:

And I'm just the wild guy.

525

:

And I make crazy recipes and I make stuff

up and I don't care about categories.

526

:

And I just mush it all together and

put gochujang on frosted flakes.

527

:

And I'm happy.

528

:

And so I'm, this is just crazy experiment.

529

:

food because I don't haven't

been trained and I don't have

530

:

any notion of what the rules are.

531

:

And so because I don't have any training,

I'm just the writer of our books.

532

:

To me, it was fabulous.

533

:

It was deeply chewy rice bits and,

um, rice logs, rice cylinders.

534

:

Then, you know, with the just

traditional carbonara with

535

:

parmesan and, uh, eggs and bacon.

536

:

No,

537

:

Bruce: but that texture.

538

:

I expected chilies and he did use

539

:

Mark: bacon and not one Charlie.

540

:

And I think that actually the bacon worked

better because it's a stronger flavor.

541

:

It's more, you know, he just used, uh, U.

542

:

S.

543

:

As they call it, streaky bacon, thin

bacon strips that we all know in the U.

544

:

S.

545

:

And actually gave it a better Huge smoke

hit and a huge salt here, which actually

546

:

made it a little better against all those

rice cakes So it it was really good.

547

:

I loved it What's making

me happy in food this week?

548

:

Is that we got to go to a friend's house

this last weekend and eat ossobucco

549

:

And if you know me, you know how much

I love ossobucco and he did a big

550

:

bang up job on this awesome book.

551

:

Oh, and he made it with a citrus.

552

:

So it had orange zest in the awesome book.

553

:

Oh, and parsley and garlic.

554

:

It was tomato.

555

:

Yeah, it was tomato based, but the

oranges were just what was the thing.

556

:

And then he made a gremolata, the

dry herb garlic topping with orange.

557

:

And he put, he didn't

let me get there yet.

558

:

He put it with orange zest in it.

559

:

And it's, it was just so.

560

:

Unbelievable, comforting.

561

:

We sat at that table for hours, uh,

hours, and I think, uh, there were six

562

:

of us, and I think five bottles of wine

got drunk in the end by the time the

563

:

evening was over, but it was almost

worth what happened to me the next day.

564

:

I'm too old to drink like that anymore,

but, uh, it was almost worth it, but

565

:

the food was absolutely spectacular.

566

:

It was.

567

:

I was actually very happy that somebody

cooked for me and cooked so carefully

568

:

for me, and, um, it was fantastic.

569

:

So, uh, cook for your friends.

570

:

You can make this.

571

:

them happy.

572

:

Okay, that's the episode of Cooking

with Bruce and Mark this week.

573

:

We appreciate your time with us

and listening to us bang on about

574

:

Chinese food, whatever that means

in North America, and how we've

575

:

seen it change over the years.

576

:

And actually, it's an exciting change, and

I look forward to other exciting changes.

577

:

I look forward to finding out the

intricacies of Indonesian fare in

578

:

the months ahead as Bruce starts

to explore Indonesian cuisine.

579

:

Until I look forward to that so

much because it's just fun to

580

:

explore food in various ways.

581

:

Bruce: And every week we tell you

what's making us happy in food here

582

:

on Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

583

:

So go to our Facebook group, also

called Cooking with Bruce and Mark,

584

:

and every week I post a question.

585

:

What's making you happy in food this week?

586

:

Please answer it because we want to

know what is making you happy in food

587

:

this week here on Cooking with Bruce

588

:

and

All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for Cooking with Bruce and Mark

About the Podcast

Cooking with Bruce and Mark
Fantastic recipes, culinary science, a little judgment, hysterical banter, love and laughs--you know, life.
Join us, Bruce Weinstein and Mark Scarbrough, for weekly episodes all about food, cooking, recipes, and maybe a little marital strife on air. After writing thirty-six cookbooks, we've got countless opinions and ideas on ingredients, recipes, the nature of the cookbook-writing business, and much more. If you've got a passion for food, we also hope to up your game once and a while and to make you laugh most of the time. Come along for the ride! There's plenty of room!

About your host

Profile picture for Mark Scarbrough

Mark Scarbrough

Former lit professor, current cookbook writer, creator of two podcasts, writer of thirty-five (and counting) cookbooks, author of one memoir (coming soon!), married to a chef (my cookbook co-writer, Bruce Weinstein), and with him, the owner of two collies, all in a very rural spot in New England. My life's full and I'm up for more challenges!