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Episode 83

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Published on:

6th Mar 2023

Saving At The Supermarket, Our One-Minute Cooking Tip, Celebrity Gesine Bullock-Prado, Sweet-Smoky Salmon Bites, Lemon Marmalade & More!

Inflation's up. Maybe it's stabilizing. But for now, it's holding steady. Eggs are expensive. So's milk. And ground beef.

But there are ways to save. Join us, veteran cookbook authors Bruce Weinstein & Mark Scarbrough. We've written over three dozen cookbooks including a terrific resource for cooking know-how, THE KITCHEN SHORTCUT BIBLE (which you can find here).

After we're done talking about how to save money at the supermarket, we've got a one-minute cooking tip about fresh herbs and greens. Then Bruce interviews Food Network star Gesine Bullock-Prado on her book about her Vermont life. (We live in New England and even we're jealous of her life!) Plus, we tell you what's making us happy in food this week.

Here are the segments for this episode of COOKING WITH BRUCE & MARK:

[00:54] Our tips on how to save money at the supermarket.

[13:04] Our one-minute cooking tip: Treat cut greens like flowers!

[15:33] Bruce interviews Food Network star Gesine Bullock-Prado about her book MY VERMONT TABLE.

[36:56] What’s making us happy in food this week? Smoky-sweet salmon bites from Butcher Box and Bruce's homemade lemon marmalade!

Want to buy one of our latest cookbooks, THE INSTANT AIR FRYER BIBLE. Click here.

Transcript
Bruce:

Hey, I'm Bruce Weinstein and this is the Podcast

Bruce:

Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

Mark:

And I'm Mark Scarborough.

Mark:

And on this episode of our Epic Food, , epic Cooking.

Mark:

Epic, I like Epic and Cooking Podcast.

Mark:

We're gonna talk about some supermarket hacks to save money.

Mark:

I, I'm gonna find this really funny and we'll talk about this as we go

Mark:

through, but I have a very weird take on this, on Supermarket Hacks

Mark:

to save you money as a supermarket.

Mark:

We, of course, are gonna give you a one minute cooking tip, Bruce.

Mark:

Interview with g Bullock Parado, who seems to be everywhere right now.

Mark:

Yeah, she's got a show on the Food Network and her book is My Vermont table.

Mark:

Bruce has that interview with her, which is really actually a giant get to get a

Mark:

Food Network celebrity on our podcast.

Mark:

That's kind of a cool thing, and we're gonna talk about what's

Mark:

making us happy in food this week.

Mark:

So let's get started.

Bruce:

The price of everything is going up, we all know that eggs are

Bruce:

more expensive, milk's more expensive.

Bruce:

Chicken and saving even a little bit week after week of the supermarket helps.

Bruce:

So there are certain things you need to do and I'm gonna

Bruce:

start with the simplest thing.

Bruce:

Of course.

Bruce:

Make a list before you go shopping, but be flexible, right?

Bruce:

If something on that list is super expensive, skip it and go

Bruce:

for something that's on sale.

Bruce:

Mm-hmm.

Bruce:

, let's sale prices help you.

Bruce:

What you're making for dinner.

Mark:

Right.

Mark:

I think that the thing here, and I wanna make a little slide before we get into

Mark:

some tips for actually saving money beyond being flexible at the supermarket, which

Mark:

is a great tip, is I think that Bruce and I are old enough that we lived through.

Mark:

Days of inflation.

Mark:

Uh, we, we were old enough that we lived through the seventies.

Mark:

I mean, I was a kid, but still, nonetheless, I remember gasoline going

Mark:

up and up and up and up during the seventies and in the early eighties.

Mark:

I remember, uh, when I was, you know, right outta college, I

Mark:

remember inflationary pressure everywhere, and we did well, we

Mark:

talked about it and worried about it.

Mark:

It was just kind of a factor of life.

Mark:

Mm-hmm.

Mark:

and inflation has been so zero for so long that we're back in that.

Mark:

I don't seem to be as wound up about it as some other people, and it's not because

Mark:

I don't, I, I don't want to save money.

Mark:

I do.

Mark:

And I am worried about how much heating oil costs, and I am worried

Mark:

about how much electricity costs.

Mark:

And of course all of that is true, but it just reminds me

Mark:

of growing up and my parents.

Mark:

Endlessly talking about how much gasoline was going up, how much

Mark:

the price of milk was going up, how much price of butter was going up.

Mark:

Back then it seemed inflation was part of a of our lives, and it seems like

Mark:

it's now, again, part of our lives.

Bruce:

Yeah.

Bruce:

We've just had the last 20 years of basically low prices and free money.

Bruce:

Interest rates been low, so yeah, free money has been the

Bruce:

real deal, but, okay, so now.

Bruce:

Things have changed and things are getting more expensive.

Bruce:

So besides being flexible at the supermarket, here's the

Bruce:

number two thing you need to do.

Bruce:

You need to get a grocery store app on your phone.

Bruce:

The apps are just basically the apps show you the store flyer, and

Bruce:

yes, you could pick up the flyers in the store by doing it at home.

Bruce:

You get to.

Bruce:

Ahead of time and the app show deals, you're not gonna get even on the flyer.

Bruce:

And the thing is, yeah,

Mark:

wait, I, I'm want to interrupt now.

Mark:

This is what I think is so funny.

Mark:

So I'm the writer in our pair and Bruce as the chef.

Mark:

So when we go into recipe testing mode, and even generally, Bruce goes

Mark:

to the supermarket, I am rarely.

Mark:

Ever in a supermarket, I mean, is rare.

Mark:

I'll go in if he tells me to pick something up, or if occasionally

Mark:

I'm actually the one cooking dinner for friends, which is,

Mark:

you know, maybe twice a year.

Mark:

Yes, I go to the supermarkets, or if I wanna get some high end cheese.

Mark:

I love to have blueberries and a slice of cheese for breakfast.

Mark:

So if I wanna get some nice guda or stuff like, That then, you know,

Mark:

I'll go in the supermarket and get it, but I'm rarely in there.

Mark:

But I have to say when I go with Bruce, cuz sometimes I tag along just as an

Mark:

errand and something to do and to get me off the property, which is hard

Mark:

sometimes because we live so early.

Mark:

Um, when I tag along with him, I'm always amazed cuz he's got his app

Mark:

for the various stores that where we live, that would be Stop and

Mark:

Shop in the Big Y where you live.

Mark:

It's gonna be other stores.

Mark:

But he's got his apps on the phone and he is constantly

Mark:

checking through the apps for.

Mark:

Coupons for the deals on the app.

Mark:

I am my grandmother, . Well, but it's really smart and I don't actually, I don't

Mark:

actually know how to do this as much as he does, but I have to say that at one

Mark:

of the supermarkets he shops at you, he now actually shops on his iPhone, and

Mark:

by that I mean he picks at the product, scans it through the app on his phone.

Mark:

Mm-hmm.

Mark:

it then records the prices with the coupons and sometimes just, just random.

Mark:

Pop up in the app as he doing this.

Mark:

The last

Bruce:

time we went shopping together, I had gone through the app ahead of

Bruce:

time and what the app does is it shows you private sale coupons that either

Bruce:

you or only select people are seeing.

Bruce:

You have to click through them to add them to your account before you check out.

Bruce:

That's really important.

Bruce:

So we get to the checkout and everything came up on the screen and at the

Bruce:

end it said, personal discount, $2.

Bruce:

Personal discount, one.

Bruce:

What, why are you getting personal discounts?

Bruce:

It did, it took like $12 off of our thing.

Bruce:

And I'm think those were the clickthroughs on the app, that if you didn't have the

Bruce:

app, you wouldn't have saved that money.

Mark:

And part of the app thing is that they are trying to push

Mark:

law, what they call in the grocery store business lost leaders on you.

Mark:

That means that they have an abundance of, let's say, raspberries.

Mark:

And they know that these are gonna go bad within, you know, raspberries.

Mark:

They go bad when you look at 'em.

Mark:

So they're gonna go bad within the next few days.

Mark:

And so what they're trying to do, Push that abundance of raspberries out to you.

Mark:

But that's great because then I get raspberries to go with my slice of cheese

Mark:

for breakfast instead of blueberries.

Mark:

So they can push them really fast through the app.

Mark:

So if they know they have an abundance of, I don't know, milk and they need

Mark:

to get rid of it cuz it's super stocked in the stores, then they're pushing

Mark:

that through their apps, access sales,

Bruce:

and when those go on, Like chicken and shrimp and

Bruce:

chuck roast and even berries.

Bruce:

Mm-hmm.

Bruce:

. Mm-hmm.

Bruce:

. We buy up those, put them in the freezer and we plan our meals around them and

Bruce:

things that don't usually go on sale, like toilet paper and paper towels.

Bruce:

If you have the app, you'll know when they're going on sale.

Bruce:

And quite honestly, I see, oh, they're on sale next week, so I

Bruce:

won't put them on my list this week.

Bruce:

Week.

Bruce:

And I'll wait and I'll get them next week.

Mark:

The one I always think of is going into this one store that is by as well.

Mark:

Buy is 40 minutes away from us, but going into this one store, , it is the

Mark:

liberal life, but going into this one store and the bags of peeled and de vain,

Mark:

frozen shrimp, uncooked, raw, mm-hmm.

Mark:

Were buy three, get two free.

Mark:

I still remember this.

Mark:

This was years ago.

Mark:

. Buy three, get two free wool.

Mark:

Of course

Bruce:

we did that, but we have a big freezer.

Bruce:

Not everybody has.

Bruce:

I've got an extra freezer in the basement.

Bruce:

Bad, but if you have an extra freezer, it's a really good idea.

Bruce:

Milk and eggs have gone up and priced a lot.

Bruce:

So here's something to pay attention to when they're on sale.

Bruce:

When you see a good deal, look for the expiration dates and then buy a lot of it.

Bruce:

Because I buy milk that sometimes has expiration dates, that's two months off.

Bruce:

And so why not buy enough milk to last me two months if it's on sale?

Bruce:

And the same thing with eggs, right?

Bruce:

It gives you expiration.

Mark:

It's that Fair Life milk that, that high protein, low sugar fairlife milk,

Mark:

and it lasts forever because the sugars are so low and because of it's processing.

Mark:

And you know, Bruce is right when it's on sale.

Mark:

Why not buy four containers of it because it lasts.

Mark:

Two and a half months.

Bruce:

Yep.

Bruce:

So there you go.

Bruce:

And when you're checking prices in the supermarket, here's something

Bruce:

no one really ever thinks about.

Bruce:

So you go to the condiment aisle and you are looking for pickled jalapenos, and

Bruce:

there are eight different varieties of pickled jalapenos or all different prices.

Bruce:

The jars are different sizes.

Bruce:

So how do you figure out if you're not brand loyal, how do you figure.

Bruce:

which is the cheapest one for you to get.

Bruce:

Well, there's a little tag on the shelf under all the bottles, and on that tag,

Bruce:

it gives you the price of them, but next to it, it gives you the price per pound.

Bruce:

And you could look at those tags, and this goes across the whole supermarket with

Bruce:

crackers, with eggs, with ketchup, right?

Bruce:

And it gives you the price per pound.

Bruce:

And that way you could decide if you want to just buy what's the cheapest per pound.

Bruce:

That'll tell you.

Mark:

And if you're cooking for one or two, here's another great hack.

Mark:

Just remember that it is always less expensive per pound to buy a

Mark:

lot of chicken thighs, one of those big trays of chicken thighs than

Mark:

it is to buy two or three of them.

Mark:

Oh my goodness.

Mark:

Yes, because the big trays are much.

Mark:

Economically priced, and I know you say, but I'm just cooking for one or for two.

Mark:

Then get some zip closed bags and when you get home, break it down and put

Mark:

them by ones and twos in those bags.

Mark:

Yeah.

Mark:

And into your freezer because it is so much more economical.

Mark:

And that two minutes of effort of dumping chicken thighs into plastic

Mark:

bags and freezing them will save you a great deal of money down the road.

Bruce:

Sometimes it's just 50%.

Bruce:

It's almost half right, depending upon the store and the sales.

Bruce:

Okay, the last thing we're gonna talk about is considering

Bruce:

canned and frozen produces.

Bruce:

Okay, now this is so much cheaper than fresh

Mark:

This is so much cheaper art sell to me because I hate canned vegetables.

Mark:

I just do.

Mark:

I grew up on them.

Mark:

I grew up in the convenience world.

Mark:

My mother never met a can she.

Mark:

Boil the hell out of eventually , and I just cannot deal with canned green beans.

Mark:

I can't deal with canned.

Mark:

Oh, canned asparagus is one of the worst things in the history of the world.

Mark:

Okay.

Mark:

But canned

Mark:

corn is great.

Mark:

Yeah.

Mark:

Canned corn is one of the acceptable.

Mark:

Canned beans is good.

Mark:

Yes, that's an acceptable thing.

Bruce:

I probably wouldn't do canned potatoes or canned mushrooms.

. Mark:

I've had 'em.

. Mark:

Super slimy, slime-ee.

Bruce:

But, but, but according to a Michigan State University study,

Bruce:

these canned veggies are calculated to be about 80% cheaper than fresh

Bruce:

and even 50% cheaper than frozen.

Mark:

And I think this is, this is one of the things that's interesting

Mark:

right here is that canned vegetables, Actually have a pretty high carbon

Mark:

footprint because of the processing that's involved in canning them.

Mark:

But frozen vegetables have actually a pretty low carbon footprint.

Mark:

Mm-hmm.

Mark:

. Now transportation is a problem, and the freezer transportation

Mark:

is indeed a problem.

Mark:

I'm not saying it's as low as fresh vegetables, however, I am telling

Mark:

you that frozen vegetables have a.

Mark:

Carbon footprint than canned.

Mark:

And I'm also telling you, here's the thing that's wild and I, it's

Mark:

something that always, I just think of whenever I'm shopping.

Mark:

The stuff in the produce section is often under ripe.

Mark:

They pick it slightly early, and the theory is that it ripens in transit.

Mark:

Whereas if they're going to pick it for freezing, they wait until

Mark:

it is much riper, it has a higher vitamin content, they pick it

Mark:

and they often flash freeze it.

Mark:

in the fields.

Mark:

Mm-hmm.

Mark:

. So those flash frozen vegetables, frozen vegetables often have a

Mark:

higher nutrition value, if you can believe it, than the fresh stuff.

Mark:

The problem here is the breakdown of fiber in the thawing process

Mark:

and uh, the loss of vitamin C.

Mark:

Those are two problems that are not so good for frozen vegetables, but

Mark:

other minerals and vitamins are often.

Mark:

In frozen vegetables

Bruce:

and frozen vegetables save you time too cuz they're often pre chopped.

Bruce:

Um, they'll save you meese time if you mize on.

Bruce:

Plus that is, and chopping and measuring.

Bruce:

So prep time for normal people.

Bruce:

I like frozen vegetables.

Bruce:

I grew up on frozen vegetables and so I don't know, what can I say?

Mark:

I like frozen vegetables too.

Mark:

And I think that frozen vegetables are a great, um, addition to

Mark:

especially soups and stews.

Mark:

I don't think they're so great.

Mark:

Some of them eaten on their own.

Mark:

Well, frozen onion.

Mark:

Yeah, frozen on ings, but that's not really a ve, that's a dessert

Mark:

masquerading as a vegetable.

Mark:

That's not really a vegetable, but I mean, just eating on their own.

Mark:

I, I never think they're as great as the fresh, but I can certainly say

Mark:

that thrown into soups and stews.

Mark:

They're sure they're just absolutely great.

Mark:

Mean, absolutely great.

Mark:

In fact, frozen okra is way less.

Mark:

Slimy.

Mark:

When you throw it into stews, there's something about it that has changed.

Bruce:

Well, you also don't have to deal with it, and you don't have to cut it.

Bruce:

You don't have to wash it.

Bruce:

I love that.

Mark:

Yeah, it's true.

Mark:

Okay, before we get to our next one minute cooking tip, the traditional

Mark:

next part of our podcast, lemme say that Bruce and I have a book that

Mark:

is out the Instant Air Fryer Bible.

Mark:

You might wanna check that out.

Mark:

We are.

Mark:

Air frying big time.

Mark:

We love it so much that in fact, we're writing another air frying book even as we

Mark:

speak, but the instant air fryer Bible is specifically written if you have a vortex

Mark:

or omni air fryer from instant brands.

Mark:

But frankly, you can use it with any air fryer because, as I say,

Mark:

repeatedly, 350 degrees Fahrenheit, 350 degrees Fahrenheit, or 200 degrees

Mark:

centigrade is 200 degrees centigrade.

Mark:

Mm-hmm.

Mark:

, it's the same thing across the board, so you can use.

Mark:

Any brand of air fryer, the instant air fryer, Bible, check

Mark:

it out wherever books are sold up next, our one minute cooking tip,

Bruce:

treat bunches of kale, basil, parsley, cilantro, like cut flowers.

Bruce:

Store them in a glass or a vase of water.

Bruce:

Yeah, and they will stay right now you could be real fancy and then

Bruce:

put that glass of water in the refrigerator, but I keep it out on the

Bruce:

counter and it stays fresh for days.

Mark:

Yeah, I, I made a, Iranian dinner.

Mark:

You probably, if you listen to the podcast, you've probably heard

Mark:

this, back in December, I made this giant Iranian dinner party for

Mark:

friends and I used a lot of leafy greens and I had them all in vases.

Mark:

Mm-hmm.

Mark:

before they went into this.

Mark:

Well, it's supposed to be a soup, and I turned it into a sauce.

Mark:

It's a whole thing.

Mark:

I deconstructed this dish, but it doesn't matter.

Mark:

I kept these greens in big vase around, and they stayed nice and fresh.

Mark:

I bought them at a Middle Eastern market.

Mark:

Oh, about an hour away from where we live.

Mark:

Got them home.

Mark:

Didn't want them to crap out on me . So I put them in water and I,

Mark:

I also will tell you that it works best to put these things in water.

Mark:

Bruce buys a lot of Asian greens at a Chinese grocery store.

Mark:

It's best if you just snip about, oh, maybe.

Mark:

Uh, two centimeters or an inch off the bottom of the, just like

Mark:

you would with fresh flowers.

Mark:

Yeah.

Mark:

And then they can soak up the water more effectively.

Mark:

Before we get to Bruce's big interview, let me say that we have a newsletter.

Mark:

You should check it out.

Mark:

It comes out Oh, every week.

Mark:

Every two weeks.

Mark:

Uh, go to our website, bruce@mark.com.

Mark:

You can sign up for the newsletter there.

Mark:

We, we will never, we promise, promise, promise, promise, promise.

Mark:

We will never sell your information in any way.

Mark:

Always unsubscribe to the newsletter down the road when you have lost interest.

Mark:

I hate being spammed to and unsubscribed to all kinds of things

Mark:

I previously subscribed to, but you can find that on our website

Mark:

percent mark.com and subscribe there.

Mark:

I don't even have access to your email.

Mark:

We've set up the account in complete privacy.

Mark:

It would be great if you wanted to find out more recipes, more free content at

Mark:

our newsletter on Bruce and mark.com.

Mark:

I'm next on segment three of our podcast versus interview

Mark:

with Castrato Food Network Chef, celebrity, and also the author of

Mark:

a brand new book, my Vermont Table.

Mark:

A huge get for this little podcast to get hurt.

Mark:

Come on.

Mark:

But Bruce's interview is, Up next.

Bruce:

Today we have a really special guest, Gesine Bullock Prado.

Bruce:

She is an acclaimed pastry chef host of the Food Network Show Baked in

Bruce:

Vermont, and she has her own baking school in Hartford, Vermont Sugar

Bruce:

Glider Kitchen, which is attached to her 18th century farmhouse.

Bruce:

Ooh, and her new cookbook out soon, is gorgeous and filled with fabulous

Bruce:

recipes and called my Vermont Table.

Bruce:

Welcome g.

Bruce:

Thank you for having me.

Bruce:

Oh, it was my pleasure.

Bruce:

Your new book, my Vermont table is so much more than a cookbook.

Bruce:

I can only say it's a love letter to the richness of your life in Vermont.

Bruce:

Tell me more about that.

Gesine:

Well, uh, first, I love, uh, cookbooks that also tell stories.

Gesine:

I feel that if you're going to write a recipe, I wanna know what is

Gesine:

meaningful to you about this thing that you're telling me to make.

Gesine:

And so it's, I approach the book that way because I love telling stories about

Gesine:

why I make the things I do and what it's like to live here and how it inspires me.

Gesine:

When you think Vermont, it's a vibe of comfort, cozy and

Gesine:

kind of a more simple life.

Gesine:

And I wanna bring that through in the book and to

Bruce:

your table.

Bruce:

Cooking seasonally has been, Everyone, right?

Bruce:

We all say let's cook seasonally.

Bruce:

And you keep this tradition alive in your book, and you have it right in

Bruce:

the title recipes for all six seasons.

Bruce:

So tell me about the undiscovered seasons of Vermont.

Gesine:

The two extra seasons that we observe here in Vermont

Gesine:

are mu season, which we are.

Gesine:

Uh, We have been bouncing in and out of lately where it's that period between

Gesine:

winter and spring where the great thaw comes upon us and cause, and I write about

Gesine:

this, we have predominantly dirt roads.

Gesine:

Majority of our roads are dirt here, not paved.

Gesine:

So you can imagine what happens with a dirt road when there's a big T.

Gesine:

, you have mud and driving in the winter with ice and snow is no problem for

Gesine:

Vermonters or any, you know, anyone that's used to cold weather, mud

Gesine:

is a completely different thing.

Gesine:

A totally different thing.

Gesine:

So I, when I was a kid, I always say I was promised like the horrors of

Gesine:

quicksand throughout my adult, adult life.

Gesine:

You know, they always said, quicksand will be everywhere.

Gesine:

It's like, oh.

Gesine:

It was like, it was a very like eighties, seventies, eighties thing.

Gesine:

Well, I never actually got to like get caught in quicksand,

Gesine:

but mud is the next best thing.

Bruce:

Okay, so we have mud season.

Bruce:

What's the other one?

Gesine:

So the, the next one is stick season, and that is the

Gesine:

period between fall and winter.

Gesine:

But for us, fall is only so long as the leaves are on the trees.

Gesine:

And that does not last long.

Bruce:

No, sadly.

Bruce:

Sadly.

Gesine:

So the second we hit peak, uh, and the beepers are about which are

Gesine:

the, to the tourists and the people who come to observe our gorgeous leaves.

Gesine:

The second we get a storm, those leaves just shake themselves

Gesine:

off and we don't have snow yet.

Gesine:

What we have when we look up are just a bunch of sticks.

Gesine:

So we call it stick season.

Gesine:

It kind of.

Gesine:

Coincides with Halloween and spooky season, so it's great to

Gesine:

see these eerie trees, no leaves.

Gesine:

And then I'm like, I'm in the mood to make all my favorite kind of spooky trees.

Bruce:

I wanna go into some recipes in your book.

Bruce:

Because the recipes you offer up silver, Vermont centric, so G Centric,

Bruce:

you call for a lot of brown butter.

Bruce:

I like you say in the introduction, it's not something you can

Bruce:

buy and you have to make it.

Bruce:

So tell me why you love it so much and give me a quick and easy way to make it.

Gesine:

You only need to smell it to fall in love with it.

Gesine:

It's so wonderful because it takes an ingredient that's already

Gesine:

incredibly delicious and the alchemy of just getting it hot on a burner.

Gesine:

And just, you know, getting those lovely bits of protein, nice and dark.

Gesine:

Give it a depth of flavor that is like nothing else.

Gesine:

It's nutty, it's caramely, it's like butter at its best, and,

Gesine:

and it's incredibly easy to do.

Gesine:

And the best way to do it.

Gesine:

Is I recommend getting a much bigger pot than you think you need with much

Gesine:

higher sides because butter splatters, even a small amount can, can find its way

Gesine:

up a wall in the most intriguing ways.

Gesine:

Like you'll see it a week later and you'll go, what?

Gesine:

Is that delicious splatter.

Gesine:

But the next thing you do it, you're gonna smell it obviously,

Gesine:

cuz it smells so wonderfully.

Gesine:

But it does take a while.

Gesine:

And what you're going to experience is that popping a lot of, a lot of motion.

Gesine:

That's when it's hitting the wall and you hear like it's just a very active thing

Gesine:

in the beginning, but it's not brown yet.

Gesine:

So what you tend to do is you walk away and you're kind

Gesine:

of hearing the splattering.

Gesine:

The second you don't hear anything else.

Gesine:

There's.

Gesine:

You know, there's mischief happening in that pot, the best mischief ever,

Gesine:

and that's when things start browning.

Gesine:

And that's when you go back to your pot and you watch to see

Gesine:

if indeed it is that beautiful, beautiful la chest, nutty brown.

Gesine:

And you'll be able to.

Gesine:

The smell it and then you take it off and then you use it as indicated in

Gesine:

the recipe and just the smell alone will convert you in a hot second.

Gesine:

That this is the stuff that makes things magic.

Bruce:

You live in Vermont, so it's not surprising that you use

Bruce:

maple syrup in recipes, but what is surprising is how you use it.

Bruce:

Can you explain what you mean as maple syrup is a seasoning?

Gesine:

Absolutely.

Gesine:

Well, sugar in in professional kitchens is like used as a seasoning as well.

Gesine:

Salt is as well as vinegar is.

Gesine:

Mm-hmm.

Gesine:

and sometimes heat.

Gesine:

Um, but I just don't understand the use of sugar when Maple is, first

Gesine:

of all, this beautiful natural, I say very healthy ingredient.

Gesine:

It's a super food, but it's also, I put it in a squeeze bottle and it

Gesine:

incorporates into things so quickly.

Gesine:

It also has a lovely ba buttery backbone.

Gesine:

So it just brings this gorgeous ki you know, this sweet

Gesine:

mommy to things that I just.

Gesine:

and it's so easy to incorporate, like, you know, when you're making a, uh, a

Gesine:

tomato sauce or you know, a gravy, as some people call it, sugar is almost

Gesine:

always added to account for a tomato not being as sweet as it should be.

Gesine:

Maple's a perfect thing to add because it incorporates so quickly.

Gesine:

Mm-hmm.

Gesine:

, you don't accidentally add too much because sugar needs to dissolve

Gesine:

in order for you to get the full impact of what you've added.

Gesine:

Mm-hmm.

Gesine:

, so oftentimes you'll add too much because you don't taste it right away.

Gesine:

Maple is there for you, and it's also, I think, has a much richer flavor.

Gesine:

It's just such a beautiful ingredient to have from everything from sauces,

Gesine:

dressings, soups, things where you just need a touch, a touch of added sweetness,

Gesine:

but not something that's overbearing.

Bruce:

You start your book off with pages and pages devoted to sourdough

Bruce:

starter for people not familiar.

Bruce:

What is it and why is it so important in your life?

Gesine:

I think most people now will at least be somewhat familiar

Gesine:

with it because of the pandemic.

Gesine:

It's a naturally occurring yeast that's in our atmosphere that you can

Gesine:

harness with using usually organic or very, um, life rich flowers.

Gesine:

You create your own yeast and.

Gesine:

. It has a very unique tangy flavor.

Gesine:

Depending on how you treat it and where you are living, it

Gesine:

will be more tangy than others.

Gesine:

I mean, San Francisco is famously tangy.

Gesine:

It's a tang bomb.

Gesine:

Mm-hmm.

Gesine:

. But the way that, uh, it kind of finds its way in Vermont.

Gesine:

Ha.

Gesine:

It has, it's like terroir, right?

Gesine:

So it has its own beautiful flavor.

Gesine:

It's very confusing though, because you're like, okay, water flour,

Gesine:

mix 'em up, see what happens.

Gesine:

But you know, not everybody will explain to you when to use it,

Gesine:

how to use it, how to keep feeding it, what you do with the feeds.

Gesine:

Like do you just throw it away?

Gesine:

Can you do something else with it?

Gesine:

And I thought, you know what?

Gesine:

I have students who I've explained this to and they've made and

Gesine:

kept very successful starters.

Gesine:

So I would like to write this down because this doesn't need to be complicated.

Gesine:

it doesn't, and it's not, and it's really fun.

Gesine:

Uh, you can do it with your little kids.

Gesine:

Um, I find that it tends to stay within the confines of bread Bros.

Gesine:

Where they like to talk in like very like, You know, very exclusive terminology

Gesine:

to like in Hydrations and you know, in percentages just to kind of keep you

Gesine:

away, kind of make you feel like this is something only very special people can do.

Gesine:

Mm-hmm.

Gesine:

. And that becomes very intimidating.

Gesine:

When in fact it's something that is so elemental and so simple.

Gesine:

I wanted to break it down so that it was kind of like telling the story

Gesine:

of the thing that's living around you that you can harness to make some

Gesine:

of the most gorgeous bread around.

Bruce:

You've tell us a lovely story in your book about falling in love

Bruce:

with a goose, had that happen, and why are goose eggs so luxurious?

Gesine:

Well, first of all, they're huge and they're full of extra fat and

Gesine:

protein, so that's why they're just fat bombs that make them, make them lushes.

Gesine:

But after the storm, Irene, there was a farm in our area and I fostered

Gesine:

some of their waterfowl because they, they had to rebuild all of

Gesine:

their housing for their animals.

Gesine:

And so I took them in and I fell in love with them.

Gesine:

So they were funny and a joy to have around.

Gesine:

And so I decided, uh, before I gave, you know, had to give them back cuz I

Gesine:

was only fostering them, that I would hatch some of the eggs that they were

Gesine:

prolifically producing . And I ended up with a flock of many Indian runner ducks

Gesine:

and to lose geese and, um, white geese.

Gesine:

And I love them.

Gesine:

I was their mama.

Gesine:

I helped them out of their shells as you do with waterfowl.

Gesine:

Then came spring in their puberty and it became Game of Thrones,

Gesine:

which if anyone has spent a decent amount of time around large flocks

Gesine:

of waterfowl, it's not pretty.

Gesine:

In fact, it's traumatizing.

Gesine:

And Mama, my goose, she was the gentle little beast, and

Gesine:

she also was very broody.

Gesine:

And that means when.

Gesine:

Bird wants to ha hatch out chicks.

Gesine:

They kind of get into a state of trance where they just wanna sit on

Gesine:

their eggs for hours a day, all day.

Gesine:

And, um, it's like they're stoned so they just don't wanna leave.

Gesine:

And it's kind of this ki chemical that happens in their body.

Gesine:

So she was very broody and everyone who else was being a big bully, and she was

Gesine:

attacked and wouldn't leave her nest.

Gesine:

And so they almost blinded her in one eye.

Gesine:

. And when that happened, I said, okay, I've had enough.

Gesine:

And so I put them into their separate pods.

Gesine:

They each have natural pods.

Gesine:

I called the local four H groups and a lot of homesteaders and farmers, and

Gesine:

I adopted them out except for mama.

Gesine:

And so then I put her in my, uh, in infirmary.

Gesine:

I got her healthy.

Gesine:

and we became the best of friends, but she was also incredibly lonely.

Gesine:

I mean, I'm with her a lot of the time, but she really still wanted babies.

Gesine:

She still wanted them, so she would like drag rocks into her nest.

Gesine:

She would just do, and she just wanted them so badly, and so I

Gesine:

thought, I'm not gonna let her hatch out more goose heads because.

Gesine:

They're her size and they're me.

Gesine:

They're gonna be mean to her.

Gesine:

And so I researched and I ended up getting her baby chicks that were ducks

Gesine:

and I, they're the type of ducks that's the most relaxed and calm duck around.

Gesine:

They're called Welsh harlequins.

Gesine:

And I got them as chicks and I invited her into the little brooding

Gesine:

room and she started shaking all over when she heard their little.

Gesine:

And she, she was shaking with excitement and she immediately, immediately took them

Gesine:

in as her own and started mothering them.

Gesine:

So she and I are great friends.

Gesine:

She has honks for me that are different depending on what she needs from me.

Gesine:

If she needs to call me, cuz she just wants to say hi is one thing.

Gesine:

Or if she fears that there's a, there's a predator, there's an, that's another honk.

Gesine:

Or if her baby so strayed too far, that's another honk.

Gesine:

So she, she and I are best.

Gesine:

. This

Bruce:

is why your book is so amazing, because it's not just a cookbook,

Bruce:

but I do wanna talk about some more recipes In your summer chapter in the

Bruce:

book, you start with incredible bakes.

Bruce:

and you have a wild berry, Dutch baby, a blackberry corn meal

Bruce:

cake, a peach goat, cheese puffer, all sound absolutely delicious.

Bruce:

But aside from ingredient availability, is there anything different you

Bruce:

need to know to do a successful bake in the summer versus the winter?

Gesine:

I mean, the obvious thing is that it gets stinking hot and sometimes

Gesine:

you don't wanna turn on your oven.

Gesine:

So a lot of these bakes are incredibly fast.

Gesine:

Um, like Dutch babies are.

Gesine:

Crazy fast as is the corn meal cake.

Gesine:

So that is, that is very important that the amount of time that

Gesine:

your oven is on is limited.

Gesine:

Um, in this case, we are very lucky that in Vermont, our summers have not, by

Gesine:

and large been very, very hot, right?

Gesine:

So we have my.

Gesine:

Mild summers usually.

Gesine:

Um, and we're lucky for that.

Gesine:

I, I just am very aware of how people are going to be behaving in their kitchens

Gesine:

and what they're going to want and, and the ingredients that are available.

Gesine:

The ingredients that I use in the book are widely available.

Gesine:

I mean, wild berries, maybe not, but you can just go and get

Gesine:

regular old berries and swap them.

Gesine:

So there's nothing, and I'm not precious about these things.

Gesine:

I have my puff pastry recipe that I love.

Gesine:

I wouldn't do it any other way, but if you can find a good puff pastry

Gesine:

with all butter, then use that

Bruce:

as we like to say, being overly fussy does not get dinner on the table.

Gesine:

You know, being fussy is very similar to perfection and that

Gesine:

perfection is the enemy of good.

Gesine:

What we're trying to do, if you wanna speak with.

Gesine:

And love through your cooking.

Gesine:

Things like perfection and being too, too persnickety are just going to

Gesine:

take that joy and love out of, out of whatever you're baking or cooking.

Gesine:

And putting constraints on people too is just not fair.

Gesine:

You know?

Gesine:

It, it's, it, it takes joy away from people when you take away their

Gesine:

choice and their ability to kind of play and, and sometimes people need

Gesine:

a little handholding with things.

Gesine:

Puff pastry.

Gesine:

And I understand that.

Gesine:

I mean, I know how I can teach anyone to do it, but it, I think it's tough when

Gesine:

people are already afraid of baking.

Gesine:

In general.

Gesine:

Something like puff pastry is gonna be something that

Gesine:

I is going to be a blockade.

Gesine:

If you say you must use your own,

Bruce:

your fried chicken recipe sounds absolutely delicious, but

Bruce:

you have a step where you sous vide.

Bruce:

The chicken before you fry it.

Bruce:

What does that added process do to make the chicken that much better?

Gesine:

So one thing I love about a sous vide is that it helps

Gesine:

you cook proteins perfectly.

Gesine:

Fish would be like one thing that people have a lot of trouble.

Gesine:

cooking incredibly well.

Gesine:

And then I call the proteins that are the hidden proteins like Wellington and

Gesine:

fried chicken, where there is a coating that's surrounding them that impedes you

Gesine:

from finding just from a visual aspect or the poking aspect that you might do.

Gesine:

Mm-hmm.

Gesine:

to see if it is cooked to the perfect temperature.

Gesine:

Yeah.

Gesine:

And chicken specifically, like Wellington, you can have it rare, so that's okay.

Gesine:

But.

Gesine:

Chicken, not so much . And, and that's scary, right?

Gesine:

So, uh, so I have found that, so eating the chicken to just under its perfect

Gesine:

temperature will get you to that point of.

Gesine:

Perfectly moist and perfectly cooked chicken, and then

Gesine:

the perfect crispy batter.

Gesine:

Hmm.

Gesine:

Because what I find is that people get so scared as I do that they have

Gesine:

undercooked the chicken, that they overcook the batter, and then it gets

Gesine:

too dark, that it gets that burnt and like the burnt oil taste to it, which is.

Gesine:

Very common in home fries when you're frying your own chicken.

Gesine:

So this allows you to get that perfect, perfect light, crisp.

Gesine:

Coating and that perfect interior chicken.

Gesine:

It's just, it can't be beat

Bruce:

fall may be the most beautiful time in Vermont, but looking at your book,

Bruce:

it may also be the most delicious time.

Bruce:

You've got butternut squash fritters.

Bruce:

You've got ooey, gooey, mac and cheese, maple glazed carrots.

Bruce:

, what's your favorite dish to prepare in the fall?

Gesine:

I, whatever is growing to, uh, wildly in the garden is my favorite thing.

Gesine:

in the fall, and I just hoping that things are actually doing well in

Gesine:

the garden, and then oftentimes it is squash, it's beans, it's peas,

Gesine:

lots of legumes are happening.

Gesine:

Also, those things that are really comforting in crowd pleasers because

Gesine:

fall is also when people descend upon Vermont, the leaf keepers.

Gesine:

and oftentimes our friends will stay here with us and those things like the

Gesine:

uie, gooey mac and cheese that are just like perennial favorites since I started

Gesine:

making it for my staff at my pastry shop.

Gesine:

It's just, you know, no one will turn it down ever.

Bruce:

Gesine.

Bruce:

I could go on talking about these delicious Vermont

Bruce:

recipes for hours with you.

Bruce:

Your donuts, your maple bunt cake, maple cider, gummy bears.

Bruce:

Those look amazing in the book.

Bruce:

But I want to end by asking you what people may find surprising

Bruce:

about the flavors of Vermont.

Gesine:

Well, there are some things that grow here that you would think w.

Gesine:

Impossible.

Gesine:

Saffron being kind of the big one.

Gesine:

I grow saffron here.

Gesine:

It's a fall blooming crocus, so people are first you're used to crocus being a

Gesine:

spring flower, but it's fall blooming and there was a man in Vermont who was from

Gesine:

Iran and noted that the landscape and the temperature and everything about the

Gesine:

place reminded him of where Saffron grew in Iran so he went and partnered with

Gesine:

someone at U V M and they did a study and they said, indeed, saffron grows here.

Gesine:

Well, so we now have some saffron farms, um, starting up in the state of Vermont.

Gesine:

It is one of those things that is so lovely at the end of the growing

Gesine:

season to see those beautiful purple flowers, and you can imagine how orange,

Gesine:

orange, those lovely strands are.

Gesine:

Mm.

Gesine:

It's backbreaking work, but it's totally worth it.

Gesine:

It's just a flavor.

Gesine:

Now to me that iden identify with fall in Vermont and the color

Gesine:

couldn't be beat because it looks like the orange of the maple leaves.

Gesine:

I mean the two go go together so well.

Gesine:

Another thing would be sumac I harvest.

Gesine:

Sumac here, and that it's so lovely and tart and so good with chicken.

Gesine:

And then that weed of weeds, burdock root, which you traditionally would

Gesine:

see as a Japanese chilled salad.

Gesine:

Boy, the burdock root here is just, it grows everywhere.

Gesine:

It's lovely when you can eat something that makes you so

Gesine:

angry, ver root and Japanese not.

Gesine:

We both.

Gesine:

I will harvest and just go.

Gesine:

I'm going to eat you, you little st

Bruce:

Gesine Bullock Prado your new book.

Bruce:

My Vermont table is absolutely gorgeous, spectacular.

Bruce:

It's full of fabulous recipes.

Bruce:

Your love Letter to Vermont.

Bruce:

Thank you for spending some time with me this morning.

Gesine:

It was a pleasure.

Gesine:

Thank you.

Mark:

I don't think that a lot of people know that when we were thinking about

Mark:

leaving New York, I mean, who would know who you don't need to know, but I

Mark:

don't think a lot of people know that.

Mark:

When we were considering leaving Manhattan, our first choice was to

Mark:

move

Mark:

to Vermont.

Bruce:

Oh, I love that state.

Bruce:

It's so beautiful and it's just, Ugh, God.

Bruce:

Except the winters are.

Mark:

Something Well horrible.

Mark:

They're getting better . Um, sadly, uh, uh, the winters can be horrible.

Mark:

I mean, I saw that the ferry is running across Lake Champlain.

Mark:

I saw somebody go already in February.

Mark:

Well, it apparently hasn't quit this winter.

Mark:

Wow.

Mark:

So Champlain hasn't, doesn't have enough.

Mark:

I saw it to stop the ferry.

Mark:

Wow.

Mark:

Going from New York state to Vermont.

Mark:

Kind of crazy.

Mark:

But, uh, it's a beautiful place and Vermont has a.

Mark:

Special place in both our hearts.

Mark:

We've spent a lot of wonderful vacation time there, just kind

Mark:

of hanging out, playing around in streams, jumping into waterfalls.

Mark:

Remember when we went to the Bristol Falls that day and the swimming hall?

Mark:

Mm-hmm.

Mark:

and I got brave enough to go to the top of the Bristol Falls.

Mark:

He's not that high, but it's still mm-hmm.

Mark:

for this old man at.

Mark:

A little high, go to the top of the Bristol Falls and jump off

Mark:

into the swimming hole hole.

Bruce:

Was that the place with the leeches?

Mark:

No, that was another place we rented a place way up in North Troy,

Mark:

Vermont, right at the Canadian border.

Mark:

I mean like a mile from the Canadian border.

Mark:

And there there was a swimming pole hole.

Mark:

We found out through locals.

Mark:

They told us about it.

Mark:

I mean, it wasn't really on any map.

Mark:

They told us to park at a certain mile marker on the road and then

Mark:

go into the woods down a path.

Mark:

I think it was actually on private land, but they said, Owners didn't care.

Mark:

We did.

Mark:

We went down into the swimming hole.

Mark:

It had a little waterfall that went down into the swimming hole.

Mark:

It was a hot, hot day.

Mark:

It was beautiful.

Mark:

And one member of our party came out with leeches attached.

Bruce:

Her husband was traumatized for life,

Bruce:

They weren't even on him, but he was traumatized.

Bruce:

That's true.

Mark:

These things happen in Vermont streams and uh, it's just a leach, you

Mark:

know, really honestly, it's medical.

Mark:

So, as is traditional, our last segment of our podcast, what's

Mark:

making us happy in food this week,

Bruce:

sweet and smokey Salmon Bites.

Bruce:

Oh, from ButcherBox, ButcherBox sent us meat.

Bruce:

If you've listened to this podcast, last episode, you know that we

Bruce:

got a box of meat from ButcherBox.

Bruce:

Yeah.

Bruce:

Because I am teaching an instant.

Bruce:

Chili class virtually for them.

Bruce:

If you go to our Facebook group cooking with Bruce and Mark, you can

Bruce:

see the link for this free class.

Bruce:

And in that box of meat they sent me were these sweet and smoky salmon

Bruce:

by little hot smoked salmon that was little sweet and yummy like jerky.

Bruce:

It was delicious.

Mark:

Now we had friends over and played, Bruce and I played Bridge and we had

Mark:

friends ever played Bridge the other night and Bruce put out these little

Mark:

salmon bites and they were all gone.

Mark:

They were all gone.

Mark:

They, they were all four people.

Mark:

The whole thing of salmon bites down.

Mark:

It was delicious and fine.

Mark:

I guess what's making me happy in this week is lemon marmalade and Bruce makes

Mark:

delicious, delicious marmalade and, um, you know, you can of course, uh,

Mark:

cure the slices of citrus and in sugar and macerate them in sugar and then

Mark:

ultimately make your marmalade from that.

Mark:

But there is this really easy way in which you buy already canned lemon

Mark:

and orange slices, but the lemon.

Mark:

Slices that are from the UK are impossible to get in the United States.

Mark:

We believe there's a regulatory problem and they can't come

Mark:

into the United States.

Mark:

Probably the lemon industry has blocked them in some way so they can't come in.

Mark:

So Bruce found a way around it.

Mark:

So now we have more giant industrial cans of sliced lemons and you can

Mark:

imagine, and he's been and he's been making a ton of lemon marmalade and it.

Mark:

Super delicious.

Bruce:

It's really good.

Bruce:

In fact, I used some of that marmalade to make a lemon marmalade ice cream, which

Bruce:

I served with a pear and almond cake.

Mark:

Mm, good.

Mark:

Delicious.

Mark:

So good.

Mark:

It was all very good.

Mark:

And I love lemon marmalade.

Mark:

I love orange marmite, and lemon marmalade is orange marmalade on

Mark:

steroids because it is more bitter.

Mark:

It has that great lemon flavor I think.

Mark:

Can pick any dessert in this world.

Mark:

Uh, Bruce knows this.

Mark:

I will mostly pick a lemon dessert.

Mark:

I'll pick a lemon dessert over a chocolate dessert almost every single time.

Mark:

It's just a thing with me.

Mark:

I love the taste of lemons, and so I love lemon marmalade.

Mark:

Okay, that's the show for this week.

Mark:

Let me say, it would be great if you could subscribe to this show.

Mark:

Drop down on the Apple, audible Google page.

Mark:

You can drop a rating.

Mark:

If you could drop a comment, that's even better.

Mark:

You can't comment on Spotify.

Mark:

Sorry about that.

Mark:

But if you could just stick a rating down there on Spotify,

Mark:

that would be spectacular too.

Mark:

Or any other . Platform, pod chaser, any other platform that you find us on

Mark:

a rating and better yet, even a comment like nice podcast just is a fantastic

Mark:

thing since we are completely unsupported.

Mark:

The podcast industry is collapsing around us.

Mark:

All the for- paid podcasts are going away, but guess what?

Mark:

We get to stick around because we're not supported and not part of any platform.

Mark:

So there you go.

Mark:

Uh, there's a way that the collapse of the podcast industry has

Mark:

just no effect on us right now.

Bruce:

So download next week's episode, the week after and the week after

Bruce:

that, and you won't miss a single episode of cooking with Bruce and Mark.

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About the Podcast

Cooking with Bruce and Mark
Fantastic recipes, culinary science, a little judgment, hysterical banter, love and laughs--you know, life.
Join us, Bruce Weinstein and Mark Scarbrough, for weekly episodes all about food, cooking, recipes, and maybe a little marital strife on air. After writing thirty-six cookbooks, we've got countless opinions and ideas on ingredients, recipes, the nature of the cookbook-writing business, and much more. If you've got a passion for food, we also hope to up your game once and a while and to make you laugh most of the time. Come along for the ride! There's plenty of room!

About your host

Profile picture for Mark Scarbrough

Mark Scarbrough

Former lit professor, current cookbook writer, creator of two podcasts, writer of thirty-five (and counting) cookbooks, author of one memoir (coming soon!), married to a chef (my cookbook co-writer, Bruce Weinstein), and with him, the owner of two collies, all in a very rural spot in New England. My life's full and I'm up for more challenges!