WELCOME TO OUR KITCHEN: James Park, author of CHILI CRISP
We're veteran cookbook authors Bruce Weinstein & Mark Scarbrough--and we love chili crisp more than we can say. No wonder we were so excited to talk to beloved internet sensation James Park, the author of the new book CHILI CRISP.
If you want to get your copy, you can order it here.
We'll also give you a one-minute cooking tip and we'll tell you what's making us happy in food this week.
Here are the segments of this episode of COOKING WITH BRUCE & MARK:
[01:00] Our one-minute cooking tip: a little mashed up tinned or jarred boneless anchovies makes so many dishes more savory.
[03:41] Bruce's interview with "emotional eater" and internet sensation James Park, author of the new book CHILI CRISP.
[22:53] What's making us happy in food this week? Spatchcocked chicken on the grill and a Middle Eastern restaurant in West Hartford, Connecticut: Zohara.
Transcript
Hey, I'm Bruce Weinstein, and this is the podcast Cooking with Bruce and Mark.
Mark:And I'm Mark Scarborough.
Mark:And with Bruce, we have written over three dozen cookbooks, including the latest, the Look and Cook Air Fryer Bible, 704 photographs, literally.
Mark:Every step of every recipe is photographed.
Mark:Check out that book.
Mark:It is an absolute Herculean effort on our parts to create that many photos.
Mark:But we wanted to show exactly how to create.
Mark:each dish.
Mark:In this episode of our new fourth season of the podcast, we're gonna have a one minute cooking tip.
Mark:As is traditional.
Mark:We have an interview coming up with James Park, the author of the new book, Chili Crisp.
Mark:One of my favorite things in the whole world.
Mark:Chili Crisp.
Mark:We'll talk more about that.
Mark:And then we're gonna tell you what's making us happy and food this week.
Mark:So let's get started.
Bruce:Our one minute cooking tip this week is about everybody.
Bruce:Adding umami, the fifth taste after sweet, salty, bitter, and sour.
Mark:I'm just gonna stop.
Mark:I'm just going to stop and say, do you know, I really can't tell you how much the word umami irritates me, but it's a real thing.
Mark:I know it's a real thing, but it's just become such a
Mark:thing
Bruce:because it comes from the Japanese.
Mark:No, no, no, no.
Mark:It has nothing to do with where it comes from.
Mark:It has to do with the way it's thrown around and the way people, you know, it's like, Oh, the way I just threw it around.
Mark:Yeah.
Mark:Look at me.
Mark:I know what this word means.
Mark:I don't know.
Mark:There is something about it that Always makes my spine twerk when I hear it from every single cookbook writer and every single, single, I don't know what television food contest on food shows.
Bruce:But adding umami rich ingredients is this tip because yes, when you make a marinara sauce or mashed potatoes, you know, to add a little salt, you might even think sometimes, Ooh, I could put a squeeze of lemon.
Bruce:But if you add a teaspoon of mashed.
Bruce:Anchovy,
Mark:and we're talking like tinned anchovies.
Bruce:Yeah.
Bruce:Or miso paste.
Bruce:Two very umami rich ingredients.
Bruce:They're very salty, but they also have umami or added to a recipe when sauteing your vegetables or an add in your other seasonings, right?
Bruce:You won't taste anchovy in those mashed potatoes, but you'll add a layer of flavor that is indescribable that makes a huge difference
Mark:a teaspoon of mashed up anchovy filets.
Mark:in jarred marinara sauce changes it completely and makes it a much more sophisticated dish and a teaspoon of miso paste in mashed potatoes beyond.
Mark:It makes them.
Mark:It pulls the sweetness of the potatoes down.
Mark:It makes it seem more savory to the taste.
Mark:It makes it seem more.
Mark:I'm not going to use that word.
Mark:I refuse to use it.
Mark:I hate that word.
Mark:Savory dishes where it's safer.
Mark:That's what I already said.
Mark:So savory it is.
Mark:It makes it seem more savory.
Mark:I know it's a perfectly Cromulent word.
Mark:Yeah, to use the Simpsons term.
Mark:It's a perfectly cromulent word, but it just makes me crazy inside because of the way it's thrown around.
Mark:Anyway, that's our one minute cooking tip.
Mark:Think about a teaspoon of mashed up tinned anchovies or miso paste.
Mark:And let me get, since we're now going to go way beyond a minute, let me also say that the easiest way to get Anchovies like this is to buy them in the jar because you can reseal it and then keep it in your fridge, right?
Bruce:Yeah, that's, it's certainly easier than the tins, but even easier are the tubes.
Bruce:You can get mashed anchovy paste already in a tube.
Mark:You can.
Mark:Okay, that's our one minute cooking tip.
Mark:Up next, Bruce has an interview with James Park, the author of the brand new book, well, brand new as we're recording this, Chili Crisp.
Bruce:Today we're speaking with James Park.
Bruce:He's a food writer and the self identified emotional eater behind the website Cooking My Feelings with Jamesy.
Bruce:And he's the author of a brand new book, Chili Crisp, 50 plus recipes to satisfy your spicy Crunchy and garlicky cravings.
Bruce:Hey, Jamesy.
James:Hello.
James:How are you?
Bruce:I'm good.
Bruce:Thanks.
Bruce:I love your new book.
Bruce:Chili Crisp is just taking over the world and you have put it to use so well.
Bruce:I want to ask you first, what constitutes a chili crisp?
Bruce:What is it?
James:Yeah, I think a lot of people kind of use chili oil and chili crisp interchangeably, but what really sets apart chili crisp from the world of so many different chili oil is the additional ingredients like fried garlic and fried shallots and all the flavoring add ons.
James:So compared to chili oil that might be just adding the spicy kick in the form of oil, chili crisp not only provides the flavor but also provides that wonderful texture element that can be crunchy, garlicky, that just makes everything that you put on top of the dish so much better.
Bruce:How is being born and raised in a Korean family giving you this special relationship with basically a Chinese condiment?
James:Yeah, I mean, honestly, my Korean ness and how I infuse that in the form and the lens of chile cruz was really all...
James:Through myself, I will say a lot of influences have come from just me living in New York City and having this wonderful community of other Asian friends who are constantly inspiring me and constantly introducing me to something that I wasn't exposed to.
James:So it was kind of.
James:challenging as a current immigrant at first to write a book all about something that I didn't feel like it belonged to me.
James:But that idea really changed after I created my own version of chilaquiles that had a lot of Korean flavors.
James:And once I had that recipe out, I felt like, oh, my obsession and love for this really became even deeper and more personal.
James:And I feel like I'm able to connect with my Asian community and my Korean identity and my Korean community so much more exciting way and like different perspective by Using um the power and the magic of chili crisp.
Bruce:Tell me what you did to chili crisp to make it korean
James:Yeah, uh, so if you read a lot of ingredients of so many different chili crisps The ingredients and the ratio of oil and crisp just vary so much And after tasting and collecting 20 plus different jars.
James:I just kind of gather my data of how can I capture my essence as a current immigrant in a jar of chili crisps.
James:And the first decision that I made was to use gochugaru, which as Korean pepper flakes.
James:To me, a lot of spicy Korean dishes taste so distinct because of gochugaru and just using the gochugaru as a part of main pepper flakes blend made it instantly taste different and taste like home almost.
James:And that was the first edition and the second one was the use of the scallion garlic oil.
James:We use this thing called pakida, which means scallion infused oil, and it's kind of the backbone and foundation of so many flavors and Korean cuisine, whether you're making stews or soup or just stir fries.
James:And Compared to other chili crisp recipes that you see online or other places, I wanted the savoriness and the garlicky flavors of low and slow infused scallion garlicky oil to be the foundation of my chili crisp.
James:And I also introduced gochujang, which is a very traditional Korean condiment.
James:It's a Korean red pepper paste, and that is also infused into oil, so it adds that wonderful spicy savoriness that really complements all the other ingredients.
James:And the blend of those Korean ingredients Taiwanese ingredient, Chinese ingredient.
James:All of those really create a perfect formula of something that tastes like home and also tastes exciting for people who are not exposed to Korean food.
James:And if they like Korean food, they can almost taste, wait, this tastes like something that I've had in Korean restaurant, but also it can be applied to so many different ways.
Bruce:In the book, you offer up three chili crisp recipes, which include, as you say, these Korean ingredients, but you follow it, which is so brilliant, with a formula so that home cooks can create a chili crisp unique to us.
Bruce:Or, as you write in the book, I love this phrase, this book is for you to explore your own stories with chili crisp.
Bruce:What stories do you tell with chili crisp?
James:For me, it was all about how I found myself and felt confident as a Korean immigrant in America.
James:So I came here when I was 13 as an international student.
James:I grew up in Texas and Alabama before I came to New York.
James:So a lot of my background.
James:Was like southern parts of America where I didn't necessarily feel like I belonged and I try so hard to hide slash run away from my Asian identity.
James:And once I came to New York and as I met more people who are so confident about their Asian identities and also the kind of society changed the way we talked about our cultures.
James:And as I felt more.
James:Um, food was a perfect gateway for me to explore my own and share my connection with other people and chili.
James:Chris was one of those vehicles that really helped me get out of my shelves and considering chili.
James:Chris was not traditionally Korean ingredient.
James:It was like a conversation starter for me to reach out to my Chinese friends for me to open up to other Asian community that I didn't.
James:know that I could be a part of.
James:And by constantly talking to my friends in that culture and having this kind of a conversation, I felt more accepted.
James:And that level of like food loving, spicy food obsession connection we all share, no matter what culture or language that you spoke, it really helped us like stay Connected and Chili Chris was always in the center and now whenever we go out and have dinner parties we are always looking for James do you have Chili Chris and like Chili Chris always kind of belongs to our communal friendly table as well And i'm just so happy that it is kind of a symbol of our friendship my asianness and my confidence as a korean immigrant living confidently and proudly in America.
Bruce:James, I want to talk about some of the recipes in your book because they are actually incredible.
Bruce:Now, I have been putting bottles of Lao Gan Ma, the ubiquitous Chinese chili goes on eggs for years, but you offer up A breakfast with chili crisp that blew my mind.
Bruce:Granola.
Bruce:Would have never thought of that.
Bruce:Tell me about that recipe.
James:I find a lot of granolas, especially the store bought one, too sweet.
James:And I don't necessarily like super sweet, uh, toppings in my, like, breakfast bowls or yogurt.
James:I also love, uh, the texture of granola.
James:It's like crunch.
James:It can be snack on its own, but it can be amazing as salad toppings or just incorporate it into, you know, your, uh, breakfast bowl.
James:And what I wanted to do was that it already, the regular granola recipe already uses oil.
James:So I have this thinking, how about I'm Incorporate that flavorful oil from chili crist, and it already comes with so much flavoring, so it works well with oats, so why not just kind of bake it and turn it into granola?
James:And that alone was already good, but I wanted to add something different that.
James:Took it to the next level, and that secret ingredient was sumac.
James:I really appreciate spectrum of spices, especially in Middle Eastern cooking.
James:A lot of Asian cooking doesn't really have spices.
James:We have like condiments, like soy sauce, oyster sauce, but We don't have a range of wonderful, flavorful spices like other cultures do.
James:So when I was introduced to the whole world of spices through my, a Lebanese friend, whose name is Eddie mossy, uh, he just opened the whole door of so many wonderful things that eventually made in my pantry.
James:So when you look in my.
James:Chili crisp recipe.
James:It uses Aleppo pepper as well.
James:That it's kind of the bridge of the Sichuan pepper flakes and which you Garo.
James:So that is the secret ingredient that really brought it all together.
James:And to me for the granola recipe, sumac is that wonderful zingy citrusy taste that also has this like beautiful jewel like pink colors that went along with the chili flakes.
James:And when it's done, um, all that oats get absorb all the flavors and it also balances with a little bit of the sweetness in there.
James:And it's a fantastic topping for salad or on top of anything like savory in a way.
James:And I really like that.
James:Um, I'm celebrating the savory side of oats.
Bruce:Another fusion dish you've created is Chili Crisp Bucatini Carbonara.
Bruce:And it's drool worthy looking at that picture.
Bruce:An orange creamy pasta topped with an egg yolk.
Bruce:What inspired this recipe and Do you have any tricks for getting the carbonara perfectly creamy?
James:I love carbonara, but after a few bites, I find myself craving for kimchi or something spicy or pickle.
James:Like the richness is what makes us all love bucatini carbonara, but when you have a large quantity of it, it kind of feels like I need a break.
James:I need something to cut down this richness.
James:And chili crisp was a perfect solution for that.
James:And I mix into egg yolks with chili crisp and that color just got me so excited and when it was incorporated with cheese and a little bit of starchy water and the fat from bacon or guanciale like it was just kind of no brainer kind of a recipe and It was a completely different experience when you just make carbonara and finish with chili crisp.
James:I've done that before and it was good, but when you incorporate chili crisp into the making of sauce, the flavors of chili crisp blend into the richness of the yolk so beautifully in a way that you will not be able to taste that when it's Topped off and I've made so many carbonara and I've had many fail attempt of making sauce.
James:So I think the best way to make the creamy sauce is to really make it off the stove.
James:I think the heat really is sensitive, especially when you're treating delicate ingredients like egg yolk.
James:And that is such a backbone of making the creaminess of the sauce.
James:So all of those really happen in a big bowl where you can really toss noodles and you can control the amount of heat by adding starchy pasta water or cheese.
James:And it all just kind of comes together off the heat so that you don't have to worry about getting scrambled eggs.
Bruce:Some people might not know that The name for Korean dumplings usually is mandu and you write in your book that there are no rules when it comes to making these dumplings and that dipping any dumpling into spicy chili oil is a way to eat your happy feelings.
Bruce:How do your dumplings and chili crisp rise to that level?
James:I mean, I love dumplings and I always have.
James:So many different bags of dumplings in the freezer.
James:I wrote a story about all the different ways to eat your happy feelings with frozen dumplings as well.
James:And, you know, I always use chili crisp and like black vinegar and other flavoring as a dipping sauce.
James:But I was.
James:Like, what if I just introduce all those flavors as a part of the dumpling filling?
James:And that really changed the game for me.
James:A lot of dumplings out there, I feel like it needed that extra um, for seasoning.
James:And that does work with like, uh, extra like soy sauce and all of the...
James:dipping sauce that content completes it.
James:But when you add those flavors as a part of the filling, you don't really need anything else because all that oil flavoring seasoning come out as it gets steamed or pan fried however you want.
James:And just eating that as alone feels like you can just completely skip the step of making a dipping sauce.
James:But if you want to add extra flavoring, you can also dip into that.
James:So you're adding more dimensions of Wonderful, crispy, spicy flavors.
James:And I just never get tired of eating dumplings.
Bruce:Jamesy, tell me about your experience testing dessert recipes.
Bruce:I know you say you don't really like terribly sweet things, but you wanted to make desserts with chili crisp.
Bruce:And why did you need to create your own?
Bruce:dessert specific version of chili crisp.
James:Yeah, I really wish people would taste my very first failed attempt of making spicy peach crumbles with Lao Gan Ma.
James:Uh, as much as I love Lao Gan Ma, I wanted to use that as a part of my dessert.
James:Um, I was kind of on a mission of how can I incorporate chili crisps and all the glory of the texture oily stuff into dessert without changing the integrity of why we love desserts.
James:And when I use lagermont into peaches, just imagine warm cooked peaches with garlicky stallion flavors.
James:Flavors that just don't go well together.
James:And all the flavors that I love in my favorite dishes, those are all the things that I hate about desserts.
James:So that really put me back to the drawing board of, okay, how can I still use chili crisps and put that into dessert?
James:And my answer was, let's strip down all the flavors that I love about my savory one and just keep it to the core elements, which are pepper flakes, salt, sugar, oil.
James:But I wanted to add extra flavors and a lot of desserts that I love have nuts.
James:It's because it have that, you know, uh, the nuttiness and the crunchy texture as well that I really appreciate.
James:So I incorporated a blend of different nuts, whether that's pistachio, almonds, cashew, just whatever you want.
James:And by toasting them, I really awaken the flavors of them and by incorporating all the other elements and not only provides the nutty flavor, but also adds wonderful crunch to all the dessert.
James:that I want to eat.
James:And I made the same spicy peach crumbles with that and it was a total success and it was exactly how I wanted it to taste.
James:I still had the sweetness and the lemony of the peachiness, but the crumbles and the Um, that final, uh, spiciness at the end, but not in an overpowering way or just enough to make me want to go for a second bite.
James:And that really opened a whole new door of dessert chapter, which led me to come up with exciting things like, you know, spicy pound cake, chocolate layers and brownies.
James:And now.
James:I feel like there's a whole world of spicy desserts that I should explore.
Bruce:Well, I'm a huge mochi fan and you have given me a recipe in your book for spicy coconut mochi bites and you reference a phrase from Korean eating culture that says, mouth is bored.
Bruce:What does that mean and how does it connect to this recipe?
James:Yeah, uh, so I relate to the phrases so much because oftentimes I just want to eat whether I am hungry or not.
James:And when we're saying my mouth is bored, we just want a little snackies, but not in a way that's like so filling like an entree.
James:And this spicy coconut mochi bite is that perfect, like you are moving your mouth and you are like chewing this wonderfully like a chewy texture, but the flavors of coconut and You can really take your time to enjoy the textures and flavors in a way and it's not so heavy that you don't want to like eat after one and it's one of those light yet still flavorful bites that you want to keep going for not in a way that like you don't want to eat anything.
James:After, uh, it's perfect in between snacks, uh, when your mouth is bored, especially, especially if my mouth is bored when I'm watching TV or when I'm doing something else, but like, I want a little snacky and I developed this recipe just for that.
James:And I sometimes make it for the movie nights and just have it around so that I can always snack it throughout the day.
Bruce:Jamesy, your new book Chili Crisp is amazing.
Bruce:The recipes are wonderful.
Bruce:You are so much fun to talk to.
Bruce:James Park, your new book Chili Crisp, 50 plus recipes to satisfy your spicy, crunchy, garlicky cravings.
Bruce:Great.
Bruce:Good luck with the book.
Bruce:And thank you for talking with me this morning.
James:Thank you so much for the spicy conversation.
Mark:I'm just a nut about Chili Crisp.
Mark:Anybody that knows me knows that I am a crazy person about Chili Crisp.
Mark:We have, we've probably talked about this on the podcast already, but there is a maker in the U.
Mark:S.
Mark:of Chili Crisp, G Daddy.
Mark:Yep.
Mark:S Z E Daddy.
Mark:And, uh, their Chili Crisp, you can find it online.
Mark:It's the best I've
Mark:ever had.
Bruce:It's really delicious.
Bruce:Interestingly enough, the G Daddy is not so crispy.
Bruce:It's more pasty.
Bruce:It's almost like a paste.
Mark:And it's a little.
Mark:fermented and dare I say it, a little rotty like fish sauce, but boy, it is so delicious.
Mark:Put on top of various Chinese dishes.
Bruce:I know.
Bruce:And these ideas that James has to do everything from eggs to a burger.
Bruce:It's just like, Oh gosh, I can't wait to actually make his recipe of the chili crisp.
Bruce:And then we are going to just try it on everything.
Mark:Yeah, it's, it sounds like just the perfect thing.
Mark:And what a great book.
Mark:Chili Crisp.
Bruce:It's a beautiful book, too.
Bruce:The photos are gorgeous.
Mark:Really gorgeous.
Mark:So check that out.
Mark:If you want to know how to order that book, check out the show notes for this program.
Mark:There'll be a link there to find the book, Chili Crisp.
Mark:You can find that in the show notes on Apple, Spotify, Google, wherever you're listening to this.
Mark:And there'll be a link there and get you right to that book.
Mark:So let's move on to the traditional last segment of our podcast.
Mark:What's making us happy?
Mark:This week, and I'm going to start.
Mark:Okay.
Mark:So what's making me happy and through this week are spatchcocked chickens on the grill.
Mark:If you don't know what spatchcocking is, which sounds a little bit nasty.
Mark:If you don't know what that is, I'm going to let Bruce, the chef explain.
Mark:How do you spatchcock a chicken?
Bruce:So you.
Bruce:Cut the backbone out of a chicken.
Bruce:I use a cleaver.
Bruce:If you have poultry shears, it might work a very sharp knife.
Bruce:It's a whole chicken
Mark:and you insert it into the large and see the writer is going to be
Bruce:either hole.
Bruce:There's a hole on each side of the chicken.
Mark:One was the neck and one was easier in the larger hall.
Mark:The writer's going to be super specific.
Bruce:And then you cut the backbone out of cut down one side, which is relatively easy.
Bruce:Cutting the other side becomes more complicated because now the chicken's not as stable because you have severed.
Bruce:Part of its backbone.
Bruce:And then once you have the backbone out, you spread it apart and open it up.
Bruce:You might need to use your knife to crack the breastbone a bit on the underside before you could flatten it.
Bruce:At which point you turn it skin side up, season it.
Bruce:And cook
Bruce:it.
Mark:And it's my favorite thing.
Mark:Bruce made us patchcock chicken on the grill the other night with lemon, rosemary, and garlic.
Mark:It had marinated overnight in lemon, rosemary, and garlic and went out on the grill.
Mark:What'd you do, cook it on indirect heat?
Bruce:No, it was direct heat.
Bruce:Direct heat.
Bruce:I did, I did skin side up for a bit.
Bruce:About 45 minutes.
Bruce:It was a six pound chicken.
Bruce:I did 45 minutes skin side up and then I turned it over for the last five minutes to crisp the skin.
Bruce:What level of heat do you think you were using?
Bruce:Thermometer on the top of the grill when I covered it was 350 degrees.
Mark:So medium heat in grilling terms.
Mark:Medium heat.
Mark:Yeah.
Mark:Oh, interesting.
Mark:I loved Spatchcock.
Mark:Okay, your turn.
Bruce:What's making me happy is a restaurant, Zohara, which is in West Hartford, Connecticut.
Bruce:We're doing a commercial.
Bruce:Oh, well, that's what's making me happy.
Bruce:Mark and I went there for lunch last week with our niece who was in from town visiting and I love this place.
Bruce:The fresh hot pita, their hummus is the best.
Bruce:Middle Eastern Israeli.
Bruce:We had, we had all sorts of delicious things.
Bruce:We had
Mark:those crazy.
Mark:potatoes that were so crunchy with the garlic.
Bruce:Those potatoes were some of the best things I've ever had.
Bruce:And then the parsley sauce and the Moroccan cigars.
Bruce:And we had shakshouk, the eggs braised in tomatoes and peppers.
Bruce:And we just had a whole mezze lunch and the three of us chowed down and it was delicious.
Bruce:So that made me happy.
Mark:Yeah.
Mark:So you don't have to come to West Hartford to have that.
Mark:Let me just say that.
Mark:Look around in your neighborhood for Middle Eastern Israeli Arabic restaurants.
Mark:You can have a meze lunch this week too.
Mark:That's our episode of cooking with Bruce and Mark that new fourth season.
Mark:This one included an interview with James Park, who we very much thank for being on the podcast with us this week.
Mark:Otherwise we would ask you if you would subscribe to this podcast, rate it, like it, do all those things, you know, to do, because that helps this otherwise unsupported work in the analytics.
Bruce:And we'll ask you, please go to the group cooking with Bruce and Mark on Facebook.
Bruce:We have a group there.
Bruce:I share videos, photos.
Bruce:We have great conversations about food.
Bruce:So come to our group Cooking with Bruce and Mark on Facebook and come back for another episode of our fourth season of Cooking with Bruce and Mark.
