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Episode 68

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Published on:

17th Feb 2025

WELCOME TO OUR KITCHEN: All about pork belly!

How did a Jewish boy from New York become so enamored with pork belly?

Well, you probably know some of the answers. But Bruce is here (without Mark, who still has a broken leg) to tell you about his crush on pork belly, the most luxurious of all pork cuts.

He's also got a one-minute cooking tip as well as something that's making him happy in food this week.

Here are the segments for this episode of COOKING WITH BRUCE & MARK:

[00:25] Our one-minute cooking tip: Keep a toothbrush in the kitchen for cleaning things (but not your mouth!).

[01:39] Bruce's wild relationship with pork belly!

[16:08] What’s making Bruce happy in food this week? Braised Brisket!

Transcript
Speaker:

Hey, I'm Bruce Weinstein, and this is

the podcast Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

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And Mark is still recovering, so this week

it's just the podcast Cooking with Bruce.

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I've got a one minute cooking tip.

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I'm going to talk about my

relationship with pork belly.

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Yep.

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And I'm going to tell you what's

making me happy in food this week.

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So let's get started.

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Our one minute cooking tip.

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Keep a toothbrush in the kitchen.

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Yep, and not for brushing your

teeth at the kitchen sink.

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That's actually a little disgusting,

But it's a great cleaning tool for tight

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spaces like waffle irons or between the

grids on a grill pan It's also great for

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scrubbing stubborn dirt off of potatoes

and other sturdy vegetables like winter

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squash and the outside of melons So just

like you change a toothbrush in your

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mouth every few months Yes, you should be

changing your toothbrush every few months.

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Do the same thing with the

toothbrush in the kitchen.

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before I get to the next segment

of this podcast, I want to thank

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you for listening to Cooking with

Bruce and Mark and for supporting

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this podcast by giving us a review.

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Please go to wherever it is that

you get your podcasts and leave

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us a review, give us a rating.

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Maybe I can even ask for five stars.

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Why not?

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Mark does all the time.

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And that's what really

helps us with the analytics.

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We are not funded in any other way.

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So we do appreciate you giving us

those reviews and do appreciate

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your time that it takes to do that.

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And also love that you're here listening

and with us on this cooking journey.

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Okay, my relationship with pork belly.

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As a New York Jewish kid, you'd think

that I'd have little relationship

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with pork belly, but You'd be wrong.

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Well, sort of.

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My relationship was with bacon.

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And it's really funny because when I talk

to other people about their relationship

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with bacon, especially Jewish kids, Jewish

people, they never ate bacon as a kid.

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What I hear was that bacon

was like the forbidden thing.

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They might even eat bologna and ham

at lunch, but they never ate bacon.

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My house, we ate bacon.

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We never ate ham.

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In fact, Growing up, ham was the

most Christian of all your meats.

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In fact, I didn't even know that, like,

smoked ham existed until I was a teenager.

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We went to some cousin's

house on Long Island.

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This is my mother's family.

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And they had served a

smoked spiral cut ham.

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And my mother and her mother were both

Outraged that this cousin would do it.

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And once I tasted it, I didn't

speak to them both for a week

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because I was so angry that they'd

kept that from me for so long, but

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bacon was a big thing in our house.

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Look, it was even a big thing

in that grandmother's house

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who was upset with the ham.

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And she only bought kosher meat.

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She had meat dishes and dairy dishes.

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But I guess, you know, her idea of

kosher was a separate pan for the bacon

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because my grandfather insisted on bacon.

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He was not kosher at all.

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He did not come from a religious

family the way she did.

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So she had bacon for him, but it was

in a separate pan and that's bacon

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and it's smoked and it's succulent.

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And for a lot of people

who don't even realize it.

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Bacon is pork belly, right?

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It's just the pork belly that

has been smoked, and then

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usually you buy it sliced.

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You can buy chunks of bacon,

but usually you buy it sliced.

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Now, plain pork belly is

like a whole other animal.

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The unsmoked kind of pork belly.

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And it's used in cuisines

all over the world.

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It's used in Germany, it's used in France,

the French eat it as charcuterie, it gets

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boiled in pâte au feu, it gets roasted.

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but you probably are going to see

it more in Asian culture and even

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though as a family when I was a kid we

went to Chinatown a lot for dinners.

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We went all the time and my

parents loved Cantonese food.

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It was a battle we had all the time

because I wanted to go into a Sichuan

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restaurant and a Hunan restaurant

and I wanted desperately to try hot

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chilis and hot foods that I read about,

but they wanted to have chow mein.

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They wanted to have

shrimp in lobster sauce.

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Again, you see, we weren't

kosher, but we didn't eat ham.

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Really weird.

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And we didn't eat pork belly,

except for the bacon kind.

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But shrimp in lobster sauce is a

thing because there's no lobster.

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It's basically shrimp in the kind

of sauce you would serve with

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lobster if you were serving lobster.

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And that is totally an Americanized

Chinese dish if I ever heard one.

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So we went there and I never got

to eat pork belly and I didn't

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discover that pork belly was a thing

until I went for my first Chinese

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cooking lesson at about age 18.

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I took these classes at the new school

which is still around, new school

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in New York, and the guy teaching

it was, get this, Norman Weinstein.

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was the late 70s and only then

could someone named Norman Weinstein

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be the Chinese cooking expert.

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That is not going to happen today.

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No relation, Weinstein, but no relation.

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And I have to say, I didn't love it.

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The first time he brought in

this giant slab of pork belly,

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all I saw was all of that fat.

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Now, of course, bacon has the

same amount of fat as pork belly,

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but when you cook the slices of

bacon, the fat renders out, right?

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And it shrinks down and you

have the crunchy, crunchy bits

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that are left where the fat was.

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And this Pork belly that wasn't

smoked was just way too fatty for me.

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And I had this thing about fat in my

late teens all the way up to my 40s.

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I didn't eat fat.

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It upset my stomach.

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I didn't like it.

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I just had this aversion

to big chunks of fat.

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I wouldn't eat chuck roast.

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When Mark moved in, And he was a

great cook, and he found out that I

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was making wolf bourguignon with top

round, not even bottom round, but

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top round, because I didn't like fat.

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He nearly lost his mind.

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And then, he discovered the

joys of Chinese delivery.

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And, my God, you have to really

live in New York to understand

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the joys of Chinese food delivery.

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But, I never Let him

get anything deep fried.

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He always said, oh, let's try orange

beef for General Tsav's chicken.

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I was like, that is nothing but

deep fried gristle and fat chunks.

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We're getting white meat chicken.

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I would yell at them on the phone that I

wanted a stir fried and not deep fried.

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And the poor thing, poor Mark, he

never got any of that until much later.

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But now.

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Pork belly has become one of my go

to meats for all sorts of dishes.

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Yes, I have overcome my aversion to fat.

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I love fried chicken.

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I love pork fat.

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I like chuck.

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I like everything that's gelatinous

and rich and fatty and oily and yum.

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So, pork belly has become one of my

go to meats for all sorts of dishes.

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A lot of Asian dishes, of course,

but also dishes that don't

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require soy sauce or fish sauce.

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Like, for one thing I love to

roast pork belly and serve it

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with a French lentil salad.

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For this, I actually prefer

pork belly without the skin.

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So if you're buying pork belly and it has

the skin, you can ask them to cut it off.

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Or you could just slice it off at home.

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Just try not to get too much fat

off as you slice the skin off.

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A lot of salt, a lot of pepper.

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I put it on a rack on a roasting pan.

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350 degrees on convection if you have it.

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A one pound piece or one and a half

pound piece is going to take about 45

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minutes to get crispy on the top and

brown and the fat is rendering out.

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Inside is juicy and I serve

it with a French lentil salad.

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And what I mean by that are

those little green lentil dupuis.

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I boil those, I strain them,

and then to make a dressing.

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And this is the best part because

it's a double pork belly dish.

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To dress the lentils, I'm gonna chop

up some bacon, yeah, some smoked pork

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belly, render that out, then with all

of that fat in the pan, and the crispy

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bacon pieces, I'm gonna throw in a little

bit of shallots, and some diced carrot,

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and some diced celery, and saute that

in that bacon fat till they just start

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to soften, throw in some Dijon mustard,

a little Worcestershire, then deglaze

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that pan with some white wine vinegar,

Dump all of that into the lentils.

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And that is your French lentil salad.

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Serve it with a pork belly and do not

see a cardiologist for at least a month.

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But there is something.

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You can get in every French bistro that

has pork belly in it, the smoked kind.

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Salad au lardon.

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Well, what is lardon in French?

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Bacon.

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And to make a salad au lardon, you take

the bacon chunks and you toss them,

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in this case, with frisee lettuce,

and you make a dressing with all the

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bacon fat that was in the pan and

you grate some parmesan over the top

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and it is an amazing dish especially

when you top it with a poached egg.

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So those are the non Asian ways

that I like to make pork belly.

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Let's talk about some of

my favorite Asian dishes.

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You could braise pork belly with soy

sauce and rice wine and spices and that's

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usually called red cooking pork belly.

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You could also do twice cooked pork where

you boil the pork belly and then you

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slice it up and then you stir fry it.

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with leeks and with fermented chili

sauce, and crispy skin pork belly.

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This is kind of an Asian version of

that roasted plain pork belly that

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I did with the French lentil salad.

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So for crispy skin pork belly,

you want to take your one and a

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half to two pound piece of pork

belly and leave the skin on it.

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Then rub salt.

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all over it and set it in the

refrigerator uncovered overnight.

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That salt is going to draw so much

moisture out of the skin and out

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of the pork that it's going to help

it get crispier , the next day you

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wipe all the salt and moisture off

of that, turn it upside down, score

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it in an X pattern through the meat,

but not down all the way to the skin.

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Rub some five spice powder into that.

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Okay, turn it back.

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You've got to take a lot of

toothpicks or the sharp points of a

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carving fork, and you want to skin.

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You want to stab it and stab it and

stab it like a hundred holes at least.

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You want to allow places for the

fat to come up, for it to render

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out, for that to get super crispy.

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So the skin's been salted, the skin

has been wiped, the skin has been

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poked, and now the skin is going to

get rubbed with a little vinegar.

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Now you have to put the pork belly on a

piece of foil and fold the foil up just

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so it covers the sides of the pork belly

but leaves the top totally uncovered.

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Now put that piece of foil with

the pork belly in it on a tray.

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Put that in the oven at about 325 degrees.

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Oh, for about an hour.

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hour and then crank the oven up at

that point to 450 and you are going

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to watch that skin bubble up and

get crispy and turn into something

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that looks almost deep fried.

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that takes maybe 10

minutes at the high heat.

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So you really want to be careful

and watch it and make sure it

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doesn't burn but it does bubble up.

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Okay, I talked about

red cooking pork belly.

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So I have to tell you how I do it.

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Cut the pork belly into 1 to 1

12 inch cubes with the skin on.

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Bring a large pot of water to a boil.

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Throw in those cubes of pork

belly and you're going to let them

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boil for about 5 to 7 minutes.

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Skim off any scum that comes to the top

of that pot and then drain the pork belly

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and put them on a tray and let them cool.

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Very common when you're braising meat

in Chinese cooking you will boil it

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first to get some impurities out before

you actually start the real cooking.

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Now we're going to take about

four tablespoons of sugar.

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If you have access to rock

sugar, Asian yellow or white

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rock sugar, you can use that.

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I dissolve that in about four

tablespoons of water in a skillet,

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and I'm going to caramelize that.

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I do it in a nonstick skillet.

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It makes it a little easier.

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And you're literally just going to

boil that until the sugar turns golden

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brown, smells like burnt caramel.

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Now, when it gets to that

point, you throw the cooled.

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Pork belly cubes into that pan

with the caramel and toss it

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around and take it off the heat.

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Now transfer that pork belly

tossed in caramel into either a

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dutch oven or if you have a clay

pot, that's the best thing to use.

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Throw them in a clay pot.

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You're going to put in a couple of star

anise, a cinnamon stick, few tablespoons

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of chopped up ginger, three or four

garlic cloves, oh, and four or five

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scallions cut into one or two inch pieces.

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Pour over that about a quarter

cup of Chinese cooking wine,

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about a quarter cup of soy sauce,

and then the rest with water.

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Bring that to a simmer and let that

simmer for about an hour and 20 minutes

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or until the pork belly is pretty tender.

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Skim the fat.

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Raise the heat, boil that down so the

sauce is a little bit thicker, and

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that is amazing red cooking pork belly.

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You know, a friend emailed me the other

day and said Mark had mentioned in

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his book discussion group that she's

part of, that I had made him pork

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belly for dinner and she wanted to

know more about where to find it and

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what to look for when she's buying it.

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So here's what I told her.

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I have three pork belly

outlets in my life.

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One is Costco.

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Yep.

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At least the Costco by me always

has pork belly and it's kind of

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interesting the way they sell it.

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Each package is about four to five pounds

of pork belly, which has been cut into

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two inch wide, but long strips, each

strip being about a pound and a half.

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That's really good for roasting.

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It's really good for some of these dishes,

but it doesn't have the skin on it.

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So if the skin is important

to you, then that's probably

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not the best place to get it.

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You can go to an Asian market.

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The one I go to always has two pound

pieces of pork belly with the skin on it.

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They're the perfect size for

almost everything I need to do.

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The third outlet I have is a local farm.

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Shout out once again to Howling Flats

Farm in North Canaan, Connecticut.

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The pork belly there is amazing.

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The meat is organic.

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The only problem was the last time

I called and asked for pork belly.

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All they had were the giant

10 pound sides of pork belly.

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So I had to buy the whole thing,

thawed it, cut it into pieces,

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shrink wrapped it, and refroze it.

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And yes, you can thaw meat and

refreeze it, but there is a rule to it.

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If you've thawed it in the

fridge, it's okay to refreeze it.

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If you have thawed the meat

on the counter or anywhere.

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That is higher than 40 degrees . It

is not safe to refreeze it.

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And it is never safe to refreeze

ground meat of any kind.

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So, that's my take on pork belly.

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It is one of my favorite things.

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I hope you A lot of our books

have pork belly recipes.

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Check them out.

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And if you're making something amazing

with pork belly, go to our Facebook group,

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Cooking with Bruce and Mark, and share it.

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Show a picture.

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Tell us what you made.

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I want to know about your

relationship with pork belly.

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Okay.

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What's making me happy in food this week?

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Brisket, a classic Jewish food.

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I went to Costco and I got

this giant 20 pound brisket.

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This is the biggest thing I've ever seen.

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And I cut it into four five pound

roasts and I braised one last night

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with red wine and and carrots and sweet

onions and mushrooms and fresh herbs.

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I put a little tomato paste

and Worcestershire in it.

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It was absolutely amazing.

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Mark asked for mashed potatoes with

it, which he got because with his

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broken leg, he gets what he wants.

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And brisket was making me

happy in food this week.

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That's it for today's episode.

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We talked about brisket.

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We talked about pork belly and we talked

about toothbrushes kept in your kitchen.

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Thanks for joining me.

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Please share your thoughts about

food at our website, bruceandmark.

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com or on our Facebook group

page, cooking with Bruce and Mark

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and don't forget to subscribe.

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About the Podcast

Cooking with Bruce and Mark
Fantastic recipes, culinary science, a little judgment, hysterical banter, love and laughs--you know, life.
Join us, Bruce Weinstein and Mark Scarbrough, for weekly episodes all about food, cooking, recipes, and maybe a little marital strife on air. After writing thirty-six cookbooks, we've got countless opinions and ideas on ingredients, recipes, the nature of the cookbook-writing business, and much more. If you've got a passion for food, we also hope to up your game once and a while and to make you laugh most of the time. Come along for the ride! There's plenty of room!

About your host

Profile picture for Mark Scarbrough

Mark Scarbrough

Former lit professor, current cookbook writer, creator of two podcasts, writer of thirty-five (and counting) cookbooks, author of one memoir (coming soon!), married to a chef (my cookbook co-writer, Bruce Weinstein), and with him, the owner of two collies, all in a very rural spot in New England. My life's full and I'm up for more challenges!